Author Topic: North American Nebula - Am I just blind?  (Read 447 times)

wagishohots

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Re: North American Nebula - Am I just blind?
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2018, 11:59:22 PM »
Tony you may be correct. It is very possible that I mistook a nearby faint star for m65. I plan to try again tonight, weather permitting. I don't give up easily!

Scott Etrheim

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Re: North American Nebula - Am I just blind?
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2018, 02:18:28 AM »
The North American nebula is 3 degrees across, therefore individual parts of it are faint and indistinct. I studied individual parts of it through my 15-inch using an O-III filters, and it was stillfaint but I was able to see small scale features in it.The enormous numbers of stars in the field of view doesn't help, and neither does moonlight, haze or light pollution. In other words,if the skies are milky, forget about the North American Nebula.What would give the best possible view are telescopes and or eyepieces that yield low powers and as wide a true field of view as possible, along with a nebula filter. Narrowband filters work on the North American nebula, and O-III filters work even better. However, you need your eyes to be dark adapted to see the nebula clearly. If seeing the whole nebula in it's entirety is your goal, a 10-inch Dob is not the way to do it, a 80mm to 100mm aperture telescope with a short focal ratio, a wide field eyepiece and a nebula filter will do the job under moonless skies at a good site. The drawing below was made with such a telescope. It is surrounded by pockets of dark nebulosity, the most obvious part is the "Gulf of Mexico" and "Central America" regions of the nebula thanks to these dark nebulae between us and the emission nebula behind them.

TarasAttached Thumbnails


Jeremy George

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Re: North American Nebula - Am I just blind?
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2018, 04:29:27 AM »
Quote
The North American nebula is 3 degrees across, therefore individual parts of it are faint and indistinct. I studied individual parts of it through my 15-inch using an O-III filters, and it was stillfaint but I was able to see small scale features in it.The enormous numbers of stars in the field of view doesn't help, and neither does moonlight, haze or light pollution. In other words,if the skies are milky, forget about the North American Nebula.What would give the best possible view are telescopes and or eyepieces that yield low powers and as wide a true field of view as possible, along with a nebula filter. Narrowband filters work on the North American nebula, and O-III filters work even better. However, you need your eyes to be dark adapted to see the nebula clearly. If seeing the whole nebula in it's entirety is your goal, a 10-inch Dob is not the way to do it, a 80mm to 100mm aperture telescope with a short focal ratio, a wide field eyepiece and a nebula filter will do the job under moonless skies at a good site. The drawing below was made with such a telescope. It is surrounded by pockets of dark nebulosity, the most obvious part is the "Gulf of Mexico" and "Central America" regions of the nebula thanks to these dark nebulae between us and the emission nebula behind them.

Taras


I don't want to distract fromjlr2267 discussion but I find this interesting. I have an 80 mm refractor, 400 mm FL. With a 26 mm eyepiece it yields 15X and 3.4 degrees true FOV.  I don't recall that I have tried for the NA nebulae with it. I doubt I would see it as the sky glow at my Long Island location is too great but had not considered that this might actually be the better tool.

While my chance for success is small I may revisit this target in the future.

Scott Etrheim

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Re: North American Nebula - Am I just blind?
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2018, 08:47:26 AM »
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Do you mean literal points, indistinguishable from stars? If so, I have to think that you weren't looking at the galaxies. Through a telescope they might look small and featureless, but they certainly wouldn't look anything like stars. Nothing inside a galaxy is concentrated enough to look like a star.


At lower magnifications, I've found that ellipticals with a bright nucleus can look an awful lot like stars sometimes - especially if atmospheric transparency is worse than average.

reilpipohen

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Re: North American Nebula - Am I just blind?
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2018, 12:13:09 AM »
aeajr, don't worry about distracting from the conversation...I find your comments very helpful and the discussion is for benefit of all.

Curious, do you ever attend star parties on building tops there in NYC? I imagine that would be a unique experience.

explacgarco

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Re: North American Nebula - Am I just blind?
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2018, 02:40:35 AM »
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Tony you may be correct. It is very possible that I mistook a nearby faint star for m65. I plan to try again tonight, weather permitting. I don't give up easily!


M65 and M66 are definitely non-stellar in appearance. Under significant light pollution, the can be seen but they're not easy. As Tony says, averted vision and increase the magnification.

Jon

retpoiwerround

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Re: North American Nebula - Am I just blind?
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2018, 04:30:08 AM »
Been an observer for 30 years and have seen a lot of exotic objects. Finally saw the North America Nebula (and the Pelican!) for the first time a couple of weeks ago (20" Dob, 31 Nagler, Lumicon UHC). Before that, the many attempts that I made happened in skies ranging from red zone (futility!) to green zone (kinda-sorta-maybe). Now, in dark blue-to-grey zones, it's almost a capital-S Showpiece object.

Conditions can make all the difference.

There's still a lot of amazing stuff to look at if you can't see the NAN complex. Just keep at it. Astronomy as a hobby demands patience.

Marlin Riewer

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Re: North American Nebula - Am I just blind?
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2018, 07:04:37 AM »
Out of curiosity would something like a Meade ETX 90 be a good scope for this? I currently have an 8" dob which is great but if I want wider fields of view would the 90 be a good choice or would I want a refractor like the ETX 80?

guisamcipen

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Re: North American Nebula - Am I just blind?
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2018, 09:45:36 AM »
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Redbetter I am using the RACI that came on my dob. It works well, but the crosshairs are not illuminated and of course it narrows the FOV somewhat. A variable power, illuminated reticle, RACI would be nice!

At my age, the right angle is a must.


The RACI's are great for these size Dobs, but you should consider adding a zero power finder to get you in the neighborhood before shifting to the finder. This can speed things up. As you have probably discovered it is somewhat difficult to knowprecisely where your RACI will be pointing. For the Z10 I'm using the Starpointer Pro along with the RACI. Others use the Rigel Quickfinder or even a Telrad. A simple RDF style finder would also work for quickly sighting down the tube. I put the basic CelestronStarpointer RDF on a little refractor to replace its 5x24 "finder" and it works muchbetter than I anticipated.

frenafverbi

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Re: North American Nebula - Am I just blind?
« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2018, 01:29:36 PM »
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aeajr, don't worry about distracting from the conversation...I find your comments very helpful and the discussion is for benefit of all.

Curious, do you ever attend star parties on building tops there in NYC? I imagine that would be a unique experience.


I am not actually in NYC. I am 25 miles east of Manhattan in Nassau County but the glow of Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens and the Bronx spill over into my skies combined with the air polution and the Long Island humidity.  So my air is never really transparent. It can look good to the eye but when I get an eyepiece on a bright object you can see the glow around it from the atmosphere.

My other gauge is that people with the same scopes as I have report seeing far more detail on Mars, Saturn and Jupiter than I see.  Well, it can't be the scope so it must be the air.

It is what it is.  I am still enjoying seeing what I can see.

crypagsperless

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Re: North American Nebula - Am I just blind?
« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2018, 12:34:37 AM »
Quote
Quote

Redbetter I am using the RACI that came on my dob. It works well, but the crosshairs are not illuminated and of course it narrows the FOV somewhat. A variable power, illuminated reticle, RACI would be nice!

At my age, the right angle is a must.


The RACI's are great for these size Dobs, but you should consider adding a zero power finder to get you in the neighborhood before shifting to the finder. This can speed things up. As you have probably discovered it is somewhat difficult to knowprecisely where your RACI will be pointing. For the Z10 I'm using the Starpointer Pro along with the RACI. Others use the Rigel Quickfinder or even a Telrad. A simple RDF style finder would also work for quickly sighting down the tube. I put the basic CelestronStarpointer RDF on a little refractor to replace its 5x24 "finder" and it muchworks better than I anticipated.
I actually have an older finder scope with the optics knocked out to get me in the general neighborhood than I go to my 6x30 finder to get the cross hairs on.

toughhalrechal

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Re: North American Nebula - Am I just blind?
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2018, 04:59:23 AM »
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Out of curiosity would something like a Meade ETX 90 be a good scope for this? I currently have an 8" dob which is great but if I want wider fields of view would the 90 be a good choice or would I want a refractor like the ETX 80?

Your 8" Dob is probably about 1200 mm FL. The ETX 90 is, I believe, around 1350 mm FL making it slightly higher in mag and narrower in field of view with any given eyepiece than the dob.

FWIW, the ETX 80 is a 400 mm FL refractor.  Much lower mag and MUCH wider field of view. That is why I purchased it.  But you do get more chromatic abortion.

Matt Haines

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Re: North American Nebula - Am I just blind?
« Reply #42 on: February 03, 2018, 11:58:02 AM »
Quote
Out of curiosity would something like a Meade ETX 90 be a good scope for this? I currently have an 8" dob which is great but if I want wider fields of view would the 90 be a good choice or would I want a refractor like the ETX 80?


An ETX 90 is not a good choice. What you want are bright images, i.e. large exit pupils, and a wide field of view, and Dark Skies. A filter like the Orion ultrablock is a good choice.

An XT -8 with a 38 mm Q-70 would provide a 2.3 degree field of view with a 6.3 mm exit pupil at 32x. That should be a good view. An ST-80 has the same 400 mm focal length as the ETX but uses a standard focuser. They do a good job but dark skies are the key.

Jon

grateganir

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Re: North American Nebula - Am I just blind?
« Reply #43 on: February 04, 2018, 09:47:00 AM »
From a good dark site, NGC 7000 is easily visible through binoculars. IC 5067, IC 5068, and IC 5070 (the Pelican Nebula) can also be seen. A filtered rich-field telescope can provide a good view as well.

I've also had some interesting views of various portions of NGC 7000 through larger apertures over the years.

http://www.atlasofth...ae/ngc7000.html

Dave Mitsky

NGC 7000 (the North America Nebula)
9/5/2005
Canon EOS Digital Rebel and a 135mm f/2 Canon EF lens working at f/3.2
300 second exposure
Cherry Springs State Park, Potter County, PAAttached Thumbnails