Author Topic: So my Z12 turned into a Z10  (Read 169 times)

poithegepur

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So my Z12 turned into a Z10
« on: December 24, 2017, 05:47:39 PM »
I recently responded to an internet ad for someone selling a Zhumell Z12 dob with numerous eyepieces for $350.

Being a newbie in this pastime, and suffering badly with my small dated 114mm newtonian, I contacted the vendor and told her I would be right over to take a look at the extent.  Upon arrival, she informed me that it had a 12" mirror and had only been out twice in the two years she owned it.  It seemed like it came right from the box.  Needless to say I was eager to pick up this kind of fine scope at such a great cost.

I scrutinized the eyepieces, took a fast glance down the tube (I can only imagine the twinkle in my eyes once I saw that large shiny main), checked out the alt/azi bearings and all were in perfect condition.  Even 3 of the 5 eyepieces were still in original packaging.  I handed over my money and loaded up the extent, anxious to receive it under the stars for some seeing.

Arriving at home prior to dusk, I put it up in the garden and was amazed at the wild views I had been becoming.  I spent hours in the dark only cruising the skies, hopping from Jupiter to Saturn, Vega to Arcturus, wide angle 30mm ep to tight 8mm, tried a few Messiers but had not really got down my star navigation nonetheless but I was hooked.  This totally blew away my small 114mm.  Money well spent.

I then began a few little mods.  Nothing big, just added a Telrad, moved the 8x50 finderscope over 3/4 inch to accommodate the Telrad, and inserted a bathtub cap dust cover into the bottom of the tube.  Then I chose to earn a lightshade at the end of the tube that, of course, required some dimensions.  Circumference = diameter x 3.14....but my tube diameter only measured a hair over 12".  What gives, I believed.  Looking down the tube, I noticed there was 3/4 inch gap on all sides of the main. . .how could this be a 12" mirror as promoted?  Then it dawned on me and my heart sank a small bit, just like 2 inches, then my Z12 had turned into a Z10.  In my haste to boost my aperture, I failed to take measurements before buying.  Taking the kind woman at her word about it being a 12" mirror, my eager newbie standing had little me in the hind quarters.

Do not get me wrong, I LOVE THIS SCOPE, and I got one hell of a deal on a practically new extent, but I would've much rather had the error in hauled go the OTHER way.

So today I find myself suffering from aperture envy yet again.  Wondering how much the amazing views I am getting with a 10 inch would improve with a 14 or even 16 inch dob.  At some stage I'd like to get to AP but that is years down the road for me because it's such a significant investment for proper gear.  So being merely a visual astro guy for the time being, I'd like to get into the biggest aperture I will manage.  A 12 inch seems a modest jump so I've been eyeballing the 14's and 16's.  I have noticed the Orion XX16 and the item is a monster but being that it collapses into manageable pieces, I believe it would fit my requirements and cure my aperture envy for visual observing.

I guess if there's a question in all this it would be is there a massive amount of difference in seeing power between a 10 inch and a 12 or 14 inch, or possibly a 16 inch?  Enough of a difference to justify the expense of a new king sized dob?

Aside from those queries, I only wanted to go off on a rant just a bit about my experience being new to the hobby and lessons learned concerning the 2nd hand market. . .buyer beware and always know that your dimensions and bring along your tape measure.



coachroninil

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Re: So my Z12 turned into a Z10
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2017, 11:33:19 PM »
If it's any consolation, you paid exactly what the going rate is for a used 10" dob.  The same innocent mistake has happened to lots of others, too.

I love my 12" scopes.  Keep your eyes open for another 12" extent and then flip this 10".  I have a 16" scope.  It is really a handful.  The views are excellent but my 12" extent gets outside more.

Davione Boone

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Re: So my Z12 turned into a Z10
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2017, 11:40:44 AM »
10" is an excellent size. Buy a 12 and your in the water heater moving business.

libulbinis

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Re: So my Z12 turned into a Z10
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2018, 10:47:38 AM »
Quote
If it's any consolation, you paid exactly what the going rate is for a used 10" dob. The same innocent mistake has happened to lots of others, too.
Thanks Ken, that does make me feel a bit better. I feel I also got the added bonus of the extra eyepieces as well.

Would the views really improve that much with just an additional 2" of aperture if I went with a 12"?

Jeff Ramirez

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Re: So my Z12 turned into a Z10
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2018, 12:36:00 AM »
Yikes,
sorry about that. It´s a good thing the scope seems to be in perfect mechanical and optical conditions, and there´s always the chance the seller didn´t know a 10 from a 12..., so honest mistake. Least I´d like to think so. Still should probably contact the seller?

But yeah, it is not quite the same when you think you get one thing and instead get another.

Robert Farley

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Re: So my Z12 turned into a Z10
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2018, 07:24:07 AM »
You did fine. Scopes larger than 10" can quickly become a pain to carry, transport and store once the new wears off.

pesorramidd

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Re: So my Z12 turned into a Z10
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2018, 03:32:15 AM »
Quote
Quote

If it's any consolation, you paid exactly what the going rate is for a used 10" dob. The same innocent mistake has happened to lots of others, too.
Thanks Ken, that does make me feel a bit better. I feel I also got the added bonus of the extra eyepieces as well.

Would the views really improve that much with just an additional 2" of aperture if I went with a 12"?
This will probably start an opinion storm, but...
Yes, the 2" is worth the one-time expense and every night hassle of moving a scope. I owned a 10" when I got my first 12". The 10" never got used again. I sold it.

gladinises

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Re: So my Z12 turned into a Z10
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2018, 06:10:43 AM »
To put in in perspective, going from 114mm to 10" gave you over 380% increase in light gathering. 10" to 12" gives 56% more light, 12" to 14" 44%, 14" to 16" 36% etc. Going bigger, atleast by the numbers, won't feel as significant as the jump you just made. But I can totally understand the bummer feeling of not having what you thought you did.

Jasper Banks

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Re: So my Z12 turned into a Z10
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2018, 12:04:33 AM »
a 12" hard tube dob is quite a armfull, and the chinese truss scopes like Orion XX etc don't really make things that much better.  I'd much rather have an ultralight design like www.dobstuff.com builds for anything 12" or larger.   I helped a guy build a XX16g, and was /not/ impressed at all, but he was determined to have computerized goto.

Eric Shaffer

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Re: So my Z12 turned into a Z10
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2018, 05:00:18 AM »
14" would be a worth while upgrade. Delivers just shy of 2x light gathering ability of the 10". Never owned a 10" personally, but having gone from 8" to 12" to 14" always noticed the aperture upgrade as substantial, even from 12" to 14" was very noticeable.BTW I am an "Apertureholic". Beware of catching the "aperture bug".

Stephen.(45deg.S.)

tinlengmmuner

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Re: So my Z12 turned into a Z10
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2018, 06:26:56 AM »
Quote
10" is an excellent size. Buy a 12 and your in the water heater moving business.


<p class="citation">Quote

Would the views really improve that much with just an additional 2" of aperture if I went with a 12"?

[/quote]

The short answer:

See above.

The long answer:

The views of a 10 inch and a 12 inch are more the same than they are different. I have owned my 10 inch F/5 Dob since 2003. It's never been my biggest scope but it's a favorite and it gets a lot of use.

I think of it as big enough to provide some amazing views but not too big so you're in the water heater business. If your Z-10 had actually been a Z-12, you'd know what I mean.

There's always a bigger scope out there. The key is enjoying what you do have and learning to use it in the most effective possible way. Developing your observing skills by getting out there at every chance you get will make a bigger difference by far than those 2 inch can provide.

Jon

litgeschsappa

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Re: So my Z12 turned into a Z10
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2018, 11:33:02 AM »
A 10" Dob in excellent condition with 5 eyepieces for $350? Wow, you got a very good deal on a very nice scope. You have nothing to regret. Get outside and enjoy your scope, which has tremendous potential.

Ed D

Joe Hall

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Re: So my Z12 turned into a Z10
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2018, 12:17:13 PM »
You got a great deal. I think the seller made an honest mistake. Personally I'd keep the 10 and sometime in the future upgrade to a 14" or larger truss but keep the 10 as a grab and go.IMO if I could only have ONE telescope, it would be a 10 inch dob.

Ronald Bryan

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Re: So my Z12 turned into a Z10
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2018, 03:20:25 PM »
You got an excellent deal considering what you paid and what you received -- assuming reasonable quality.

Despite what many have said and will say, aperture isn't everything -- at least not to everyone. I have a 10". I have a 12". My most used telescopes are a 5" and a 6". Much depends on the person, their sky, what they want to see and/or how they want to make use of their telescope(s).

A 10" telescope is more than capable of providing a lifetime of pleasurable use -- at least for someone like myself. I can honestly say that I've not used my 10" nor my 12" once in the past 12 months. I didn't need their greater light grasp. I didn't need their greater resolution. On the other hand, I've seen things with my 5" that others have failed to see with *much* larger telescopes.

Once at a star party someone was talking about the need for a 40" telescope. I asked: "Why?" They replied: "You can see things that you can't see with a smaller telescope." I said: "Like what?" They mentioned one specific object -- the wrong object. I was able to honestly reply: "I've seen that with a 5" telescope."

trapoutampub

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Re: So my Z12 turned into a Z10
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2018, 02:12:51 PM »
galaxies that were barely discernible faint smudges against dark skies in my 10" are wonders of detail in a 18 or 20" scope.