Author Topic: Xt10i or xt10g  (Read 238 times)

James Etrheim

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Xt10i or xt10g
« on: December 29, 2017, 04:53:48 AM »
Hello all, I'm torn between getting an intelliscope or the full goto version. I've read a ton of material and a ton of CN topics all great info! But now I guess it's time I ask some specific questions for me. I live in New England. I know I know lp terrible and atmosphere awful! ....stinks to be me. I'm 35 with an 8 yr old son. I never owned a real scope and I don't know the skies so I need computer assistance to help me learn...I'm a visual kind of learner so if I read it I might get it but if I see it I'll be a pro in no time. So computers assistance would help me learn quickly. My skies are yellow with lp and I'm Bartel 5 at best guess. Currently I'm working with a 70mm Tasco I know I know again stinks to be me. Don't worry it was a gift from my father in law who won it in a raffle. So my questions and thoughts are as follows. I know both scopes would help me find targets and goto would help me track an object. With my son I would imagine that tracking would be a huge plus for him and probably me too. It could help me learn averted vision and play with different EPS and filters without having to nudge the scope. Of course I kind of like the idea and simplicity of the 10i vs the 10g. One of those keep it simple stupid moments..you know less things on it less things that can go wrong. But the downfall there is I see people talking about high mags on a planet becoming problematic and that with globular clusters you might want high power to see into the core of it. So in your more experienced opinions what should I consider? Goto or intelliscope? Is it really feasible in crummy New England skies to really go high power anyway? What kind of magnification do you guys use for dso's and planets? How long is something in the EP without tracking? (I plan on buying ES 82s) is nudging a scope truly the devil? I have had experience with my tasco on planets at 35x and 80x mag and it doesn't seem to bad but if I have a dobsonian that can do 200x-300x on a planet is that going to be impossible to follow? Will that kind of nudging ruin a kids experience? I appreciate all your suggestions and experiences with these kinds of scopes. Thank you all and clear skies!



Ivan Kim

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Re: Xt10i or xt10g
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2017, 09:59:39 AM »
The first thing I'd check, because I don't know for sure, is whether or not the Orion go-to Dobsonians can be used without the go-to (I think the Orion scopes are without clutches and the motors are always engaged). If not, I'd opt for the IntelliScope version. My reasoning is a Dob is great for taking outside and swinging around to look at the moon, or Jupiter or Saturn when you want just a quick look and don't want to mess with an alignment routine.

I know, because I had one, you can use the IntelliScope Dobsonians without turning the IntelliScope unit on: simply point and observe. It maintains that "grab-and-go-ish" functionality.

I know that doesn't answer your manual tracking at high power question. There are dozens here that like tracking manually, even at high power. There are dozens of others here who prefer to have motors do the tracking. I think only you will know which camp you're in. Do you have a friend with a manual Dobsonian you can try tracking with to see if you would like it?

Chris Ingram

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Re: Xt10i or xt10g
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2017, 06:34:16 AM »
if you're planning on using 82* EP's, then I wouldn't worry much about objects requiring much 'nudging' during viewing. my Dob is full manual and my 8" is on a goto. I don't have any issues with either although the 12" does help when it comes to finding faint DSO's. with goto, you just select, push enter and you'll have that DSO right in the FOV. this is particularly helpful for me finding dim galaxies in my light polluted back yard. the extra aperture of the 12" helps with star hopping to those same dim galaxies.

having both means that my decision to use either is based on what my object list is, how much cool down time I have available, how much I feel like lifting and whether I want to deal with alignment. although the last is actually pretty insignificant due to my pier. for my location and typical skies, my 8.8mm ES82 is about as high as I go. I have higher power EP's (in 82*) but generally they don't come out much. manually tracking with the 8.8 isn't something I consider bothersome.

redsfilrerig

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Re: Xt10i or xt10g
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2017, 06:32:29 PM »
Thanks for the quick reply. I saw some say you can move the xt10g manually but like you said it's always engaged to the motors. So that would make it a lot more tough to move manually and personally I feel that can't be good for the gears and motors to push against them. So that would bring up the longevity issue if I chose to push it around. Unfortunately for me only one of my friends cares about astronomy and he doesn't own a scope. So anything I do will be on the blind so to speak. I spoke with one guy on here in a club but he's 2.5 hrs away. I personally don't think I would mind nudging the scope and for quick peaks the 10i fits that bill but I'm afraid my son may get turned off by moving the scope.

bunkreplterpka

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Re: Xt10i or xt10g
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2018, 02:42:21 AM »
Thanks Mike. I had a feeling that the 82s would make time in the fov alot easier.hearing someone say it makes me feel better. I do know that I'm interested in dso's so that said it's probably not. terrible idea to get goto to start and I could always buy a manual dob later. My wife is letting make this purchase so I may as well go big now and convince her of a cheaper purchase later..lol.

inovilmei

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Re: Xt10i or xt10g
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2018, 09:55:43 PM »
Hello Ken83,

If it were me, I'd get the intelliscope version given your choices. I have an xt10g as well as an xt10 (non-goto). I much prefer the xt10 (non-goto) due its simplicity and much lower cost. Yeah, it is nice to have GOTO when finding a new object and having trouble. But, for me at least, GOTO is way too slow on objects that I already know. And, with the xt10g, even though you can turn off GOTO and use it manually with loosened clutches, it is a bit heavy/sluggish and not as smooth as the NON-GOTO model. I use 82 degree eyepieces around 80x to 120x most of the time and the lack of tracking is no big deal. Now, I acknowledge that many stargazers love GOTO -- the motors, the robotic nature of things -- and this is a big part of their viewing pleasure. If this describes you, then get the GOTO instead. Either way, you'll be getting a great scope and having a blast!

Tom

radnatipni

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Re: Xt10i or xt10g
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2018, 11:37:26 PM »
I have a 14" and not the 10" but from what I see / read the goto and clutch system the same as mine.

I suppose there are 4 ways to use the "G" series as far as I can tell.

Power off, no goto, clutches set for star hopping/ whatever manual use. Objects drift in the eyepiece.

Power on, Tracking On only. This option only has tracking - GREAT if that is all you need - makes higher power planetary (or whatever else) to me concentrate only on what I'm looking at.. Move to an object and it increases time the object stays centered, no manual nudging (or little)required.

Power on, One Star Align. (My most often used) Opens the GOTO object catalogs for automated locating / centering. Can manually move without losing 'GOTO'.

Power on, Two Star Align. More accurate goto, can manually reposition without loosing the 'GOTO' align.

You really have all your options open. I've had fine success with either star hoppingwith just tracking turned on, and the One Star alignment. I am careful to try and get the base flat.
Set the clutches differently depending on how I use it, for meit became second nature rapidly. The Two Star align is great for looking for the fainter stuff.It's great to have a lower power widefield eyepiece.

nostcharmacon

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Re: Xt10i or xt10g
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2018, 03:47:20 PM »
That's a Newtonian that you're considering, and on a Dobson alt-azimuth. I would suggest reading through these collimation instructions to see if you'd like to tinker with one...

http://www.schlatter...y/collimate.htm
http://www.forumskyl...Collimation.pdf

It's not that difficult to do, but it does involve a learning curve at first.

The go-to Dobsonians haven't been out for too long, therefore user-reviews online are rather scant.

Synta, who makes the Orion kits, also offers a go-to under their Sky-Watcher moniker...

https://www.astronom...tor_p20335.aspx

For travelling to darker sites, and even as a grab-and-go of sorts...

https://www.astronom...ope_p20480.aspx

Cesar Rojas

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Re: Xt10i or xt10g
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2018, 11:11:52 PM »
Thank you Tom and counterweight for your quick replies and insight. I see your point Tom about the simplicity of non-goto..but if I'm understanding counter weight correctly I can keep power off and use the xt10g manually (assuming that it will be  less smooth than a normal dobsonian as Tom has pointed out) or go with tracking or goto options from the xt10g. If that's the case the xt10g seems like a  no brainer. It's basically the best of both worlds. So to be clear I can have no power to the system and run it like a normal dobsonian? If so do you feel like that is hurting the motors or gears? I understand from my reading that there is no clutch so in place so do you mean you loosen the tension or the gear lashing? Thanks again to all of you!! It's a big help for a newbie making a decision like this!!

Brandon Costello

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Re: Xt10i or xt10g
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2018, 03:57:11 AM »
Thank you also sky muse! I will look at those links tomorrow I have work in six hours...otherwise I would look it over tonight.

sandsibyno

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Re: Xt10i or xt10g
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2018, 07:46:34 AM »
I use the Orion lasermate II Deluxe and it makes collimation (or just checking it) a snap, I did also get heir centering adaptor to use it. I hadalready boughtfor another Newtonian. Collimation is important and It's not that difficult once you understand what you are doing.

erenlinra

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Re: Xt10i or xt10g
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2018, 03:45:36 PM »
Quote
Thank you also sky muse! I will look at those links tomorrow I have work in six hours...otherwise I would look it over tonight.

You're welcome, Ken. Yes, if you're going to get a large Newtonian, or any Newtonian, those instructions will give you a good head start.

If you consider using a laser collimator, the unit must be checked for alignment before using it to collimate the telescope, else de-collimation of the Newtonian can result...

https://www.youtube....h?v=bE09_X43UUQ
https://www.youtube....h?v=A6R2InWjFbQ

adectisun

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Re: Xt10i or xt10g
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2018, 01:02:45 PM »
I had a feeling those links where headed down the colminating path. And for sure it's a great point and I will read all of them tomorrow when I'm done with work. My only thing with culmination is I feel sooner or later I can get that down to a science but I can never make an 8 inch scope a 10 inch scope if that makes sense.

Ryan Miller

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Re: Xt10i or xt10g
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2018, 02:35:16 PM »
Quote
I had a feeling those links where headed down the colminating path. And for sure it's a great point and I will read all of them tomorrow when I'm done with work. My only thing with culmination is I feel sooner or later I can get that down to a science but I can never make an 8 inch scope a 10 inch scope if that makes sense.

I understand. I've never made one myself, as I leave that up to the astronomy gods. But I do effectively enhance them when needed.

At the low-to-moderate powers, you can get by with a collimation that's close enough. It's at the higher and highest powers where the alignment of the two mirrors in tandem with the focusser becomes most critical, and for best image quality at said powers.

haigeoredis

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Re: Xt10i or xt10g
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2018, 10:15:31 AM »
Quote
Thank you Tom and counterweight for your quick replies and insight. I see your point Tom about the simplicity of non-goto..but if I'm understanding counter weight correctly I can keep power off and use the xt10g manually (assuming that it will be less smooth than a normal dobsonian as Tom has pointed out) or go with tracking or goto options from the xt10g. If that's the case the xt10g seems like a no brainer. It's basically the best of both worlds. So to be clear I can have no power to the system and run it like a normal dobsonian? If so do you feel like that is hurting the motors or gears? I understand from my reading that there is no clutch so in place so do you mean you loosen the tension or the gear lashing? Thanks again to all of you!! It's a big help for a newbie making a decision like this!!

Sorry, when I wrote 'clutch' above I was getting confused with a different telescope I have. You are right, there is no clutch on the xt10g. You can use it manually and push it to any target at any time -- whether the power is on and aligned or off. If the power is on it is designed to keep its alignments even when you push the telescope manually. Pretty cool (but it does have its limits with accuracy after so many pushes)! No, it is not hurting the system at all to push it. I commend you with going for a 10" -- this is serious aperture and the views will be awesome when compared with lesser OTAs. Keep in mind it is heavy -- I use a small hand truck to move mine outside. But you can remove the tube from the mount and move it by hand if need be.