Author Topic: new tablet and SkySafare pro  (Read 261 times)

Dave Hawkins

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Re: new tablet and SkySafare pro
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2018, 11:47:01 AM »
If you have wifi at home, you can set up the tablet to do updates only on wifi, which usually does not have data charges. I would get the same type as your wife's phone and tablet, you can probably just sign your tablet into her Apple or Google Play account and use that for downloading Skysafari and updating the tablet (though you will need to work out the negotiations with her :-)

BTW, the android tablet I got is this one:

https://www.amazon.c...e?ie=UTF8&psc=1

with this cover:

https://www.amazon.c...e?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I like the cover, it has a magnetic clasp that is detected by the tablet's magnetometer so it detects when closed or opened. So, the screen turns on when opened, and turns off when closed. But if you use the compass mode as per Jon Isaacs post #11 then I suspect the magnet of the clasp might interfere with it.

Tyson Conway

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Re: new tablet and SkySafare pro
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2018, 02:06:51 PM »
Quote
If you have wifi at home, you can set up the tablet to do updates only on wifi, which usually does not have data charges. I would get the same type as your wife's phone and tablet, you can probably just sign your tablet into her Apple or Google Play account and use that for downloading Skysafari and updating the tablet (though you will need to work out the negotiations with her :-)

BTW, the android tablet I got is this one:

https://www.amazon.c...e?ie=UTF8&psc=1

with this cover:

https://www.amazon.c...e?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I like the cover, it has a magnetic clasp that is detected by the tablet's magnetometer so it detects when closed or opened. So, the screen turns on when opened, and turns off when closed. But if you use the compass mode as per Jon Isaacs post #11 then I suspect the magnet of the clasp might interfere with it.

I like the cover with the intense nebula displayed. Keeps the astronomy theme going. Speaking of magnets
interfering, I use some strong magnetic counterweights on the back of my dob. I might have to change things
around.

Eric Shaffer

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Re: new tablet and SkySafare pro
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2018, 09:51:47 PM »
Quote
I like the cover, it has a magnetic clasp that is detected by the tablet's magnetometer so it detects when closed or opened. So, the screen turns on when opened, and turns off when closed. But if you use the compass mode as per Jon Isaacs post #11 then I suspect the magnet of the clasp might interfere with it.
I bought my Samsung Galaxy S2 early this year. I got a cover for it at the same time, but had to exchange it for one without a magnetic closure, as it made any app that used the compass completely useless. The S2 also has two illuminated control buttons which continue blazing white when astronomy apps are in night mode, and there is no setting to turn them off; fortunately there is a simple Galaxy Button Lights app which lets me apply an "Always Off" setting and forget about them.

vojbuohautes

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Re: new tablet and SkySafare pro
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2018, 01:26:44 AM »
Quote
Quote
I like the cover, it has a magnetic clasp that is detected by the tablet's magnetometer so it detects when closed or opened. So, the screen turns on when opened, and turns off when closed. But if you use the compass mode as per Jon Isaacs post #11 then I suspect the magnet of the clasp might interfere with it.
I bought my Samsung Galaxy S2 early this year. I got a cover for it at the same time, but had to exchange it for one without a magnetic closure, as it made any app that used the compass completely useless. The S2 also has two illuminated control buttons which continue blazing white when astronomy apps are in night mode, and there is no setting to turn them off; fortunately there is a simple Galaxy Button Lights app which lets me apply an "Always Off" setting and forget about them.
Turning on Battery Saver turns off the lights on my Samsung tablet.

musochoolsmee

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Re: new tablet and SkySafare pro
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2018, 04:21:30 AM »
from post #10 "Lastly, even with the dimmed screen and red overlay, you can produce bright flashes that can compromise dark adaptation"
That was driving me mad, the flash from screen-off effect.

Running SS5pro on a LG G pad 8.0 android
When you turn off the display, there is a bright flash. Go to settings, display, screen-off effect. Select "fade out" from the options.
The "Retro TV" was the default setting ,it is a bright flash that ruins dark adaption even with red acetate over the screen.

ulatimhan

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Re: new tablet and SkySafare pro
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2018, 06:57:08 AM »
I like the size of the iPad 4 Mini. At the scope I use a music stand to support it, attached with velcro.

Chris Castillo

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Re: new tablet and SkySafare pro
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2018, 04:38:30 PM »
Quote
This holiday season I'm going to treat myself to a new tablet loaded with SkySarfare Pro. Always used paper
atlases and star hopping up to this point. I still plan to star hop and I'm pretty accomplished but I just want to try
doing it with a new toy.

I want to ask:

1. What size tablet is best at the telescope?
2. Should I hand hold it or mount it to the scope? ( a 12" dob)
3. Do certain brands hold a charge or work better in the cold? ( below zero possible in the winter)
4. What specific techniques do you guys use to star hop using a tablet?
 
Plus any other questions I may not know to ask..

I understand there will be a learning curve but I'm excited thinking about the change.
I'll appreciate all insights offered.

1. What size tablet is best at the telescope?

It depends on how good your eyes are. For many years I used a small tablet (Nexus 7HD or iPad Mini), but as my eyesight has declined I've moved to a larger tablet, a full sized iPad (9.7").

On the other hand, if your eyes are sharp why not instead go for a high quality smartphone with a good screen (Samsung Galaxy S8, LG G6, etc.). Big screen for a small phone, small package, and more versatile than a tablet, assuming you use a mobile phone.

Though I do think Sky Safari runs smoother on Apple devices, having run it on both types (Android and iOS) of several different generations.

2. Should I hand hold it or mount it to the scope? ( a 12" dob)

Neither IMO. I would set up a folding camping table (a little one) near the scope and set up the tablet in a case on that. Were there some reason to mI would buy a cheap case for it (Poetic makes some nice affordable ones for many tablets) and use sticky backed Velcro to attach the tablet case to the OTA (assuming it's a solid tube Dob). If attached to the OTA I would make sure the tablet was at the center of mass on the top of the tube (down near the base where the bearings contact the base).

3. Do certain brands hold a charge or work better in the cold? ( below zero possible in the winter)

Not really. You just want one that (a) is efficient (smaller node CPUs are more efficient) and (b) has a bigger battery. No batteries work well in cold but the bigger the battery and the more efficient the system it powers, the longer it will last.

4. What specific techniques do you guys use to star hop using a tablet?

When I star hop using a tablet, I use it in exactly the same manner I use a paper star atlas. More often though I use the tablet to control a motorized GOTO mount.

Best,

Jim

pamasluocon

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Re: new tablet and SkySafare pro
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2018, 07:01:06 PM »
Quote
from post #10 "Lastly, even with the dimmed screen and red overlay, you can produce bright flashes that can compromise dark adaptation"
That was driving me mad, the flash from screen-off effect.

Running SS5pro on a LG G pad 8.0 android
When you turn off the display, there is a bright flash. Go to settings, display, screen-off effect. Select "fade out" from the options.
The "Retro TV" was the default setting ,it is a bright flash that ruins dark adaption even with red acetate over the screen.

One thing worth noting is that the accidental leaks of white light happen with Android devices. Those glitches don't seem to happen with iOS devices. I use both. With the iPad I don't need the extra red film. With Android devices I do for the reason you noted. Seach bars/boxes seem to switch back to white light when running the app.

Best,

Jim

carewemi

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Re: new tablet and SkySafare pro
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2018, 03:59:18 PM »
I have my 8 inch tablet attached to a holder on a pole that is attached to my dob. I have recently made a Catsperch chair and find this way I can stay seated and refer back to the tablet from the eyepiece.

Setting your tablet to turn off after 1 minute of non use is handy too.

Dudley

Marquez Faulkner

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Re: new tablet and SkySafare pro
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2018, 05:12:07 PM »
IMO.. An 8-9" tablet is best for field use. 7" is too small to see a decent amount of info and 10" requires 2 hands to operate unless using a stand of some sort. The 8-9" range gives enough screen real estate and can still fit in your jeans back pocket. I use an older 8" Asus tablet and it serves me well enough.

As far as a screen filter skip all the software solutions they are all weak at best. Go ahead and get the Xtra Dark Red Eyes Cling from Sirius Astro Products(scroll down to the bottom of the page) It's only $14 for a tablet sized piece it is THE best option. it blocks out all white/blue light and is dark enough that you actually have to turn up your brightness to see it in the dark.I have tried pretty much all other solutions and this one is the best IMO.

manreistilles

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Re: new tablet and SkySafare pro
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2018, 12:41:31 AM »
Quote
I have my 8 inch tablet attached to a holder on a pole that is attached to my dob. I have recently made a Catsperch chair and find this way I can stay seated and refer back to the tablet from the eyepiece.

Setting your tablet to turn off after 1 minute of non use is handy too.

Dudley

Ten inches.
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ringnasingsimb

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Re: new tablet and SkySafare pro
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2018, 10:51:03 AM »
Quote

Unless the device has an AMOLED screen, there is light leakage and to preserve dark adaption a red film or red goggles are necessary. The only devices I am aware of with AMOLED (or oled) screens are a few Android devices, some phones and a few Samsung tablets. I don't know about the new iPhone. Edit: I guess the iPhone X has it.

Regarding screen size.. I'll be 70 in April. Fixed focus eyes.. 7 inches is fine, I just wear reading glasses that allow me to focus at 12 inches.. hand held and in my coat pocket for storage.. its always right there.

Android versus iOs: Bill Tsuschmy says with Sky Safari 5 he thinks they're on par with each other.

The main things: Figure a system so you don't loose dark adaptation. Learn the program. Figure out the ergonomics..

Jon

migresinli

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Re: new tablet and SkySafare pro
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2018, 10:31:43 PM »
Quote
<p class="citation">Quote


.

The main things: Figure a system so you don't loose dark adaptation. Learn the program. Figure out the ergonomics..

Jon[/quote]

Good advice!
I decided to get an 8" tablet as the best fit for me. I'll get the red overlay at the same time. Then I'll
work out the ergonomics as I learn the program. Should be a lot of fun.

Any good sales for tablets come up in the next few weeks, please pass the info my way!
Thanks to everyone for all the feedback.

Cory Bass

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Re: new tablet and SkySafare pro
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2018, 08:16:29 PM »
Quote
<p class="citation">QuoteOne thing worth noting is that the accidental leaks of white light happen with Android devices. Those glitches don't seem to happen with iOS devices. I use both. With the iPad I don't need the extra red film. With Android devices I do for the reason you noted. Seach bars/boxes seem to switch back to white light when running the app.


Unless the device has an AMOLED screen, there is light leakage and to preserve dark adaption a red film or red goggles are necessary. The only devices I am aware of with AMOLED (or oled) screens are a few Android devices, some phones and a few Samsung tablets. I don't know about the new iPhone. Edit: I guess the iPhone X has it.

Regarding screen size.. I'll be 70 in April. Fixed focus eyes.. 7 inches is fine, I just wear reading glasses that allow me to focus at 12 inches.. hand held and in my coat pocket for storage.. its always right there.

Android versus iOs: Bill Tsuschmy says with Sky Safari 5 he thinks they're on par with each other.

The main things: Figure a system so you don't loose dark adaptation. Learn the program. Figure out the ergonomics..

Jon[/quote]
I'd expect the vendor to think that, but as someone who actively uses the app on both I can assure you they are not, and I have FPS data to illustrate it. It's not even close. Even using a fast Android device with a Qualcomm 821 (second fastest currently available Snapdragon CPU) and comparing it to an older generation (A7) Apple device, both running SS5 Pro, the Apple tablet is faster and smoother. The new Apple iPad (standard) is a rocket compared to the old A7 model.

Unlike Android where when you summon the keyboard in the app with a search bar active and the keyboard defaults to pure white light for a heartbeat, destroying your dark adaptation, until the apps red screen feature catches up, this never happens in the iOS version. The only time I am tempted to use red film with an Apple device is at a Bortle 1-2 site. The dimming feature and night mode on iOS SS is more than adequate for preserving the levels of dark adaptation possible in the suburbs. I can't say that about the Android instance.

The other huge advantage of an Apple device is the ability to use 100% reliable wired scope-to-mount connections. Bluetooth is worst for reliability and when BT drops in Android SS you are forced to take a white light journey through Settings to re-establish the connection. With Sky Fi for iOS reliability is higher, but you've added an additional battery dependency to your mount control connection. Sky Wire has no unique power requirements and never drops a signal.

Having been using both Android and iOS Sky Safari for since version 2, while the Android version has come a long way relative to the iOS version, I don't think parity has been achieved.

As for OLED Android devices, the best with a big screen is the Samsung Galaxy Tab S3:

https://www.samsung....sm-t820nzkaxar/

It's gorgeous, uses a fast processor (Snapdragon 820) and has a physical keyboard option, but it is still going to bathe you in brilliant unmitigated white light when you use search function and the keyboard initially opens. A lowly iPad isn't going to do that.

On balance I stick by my experience - iOS is still better for field use with SS than Android for the reasons stated. But I generally have only one Apple device at a time so when I field two instruments and want to use SS for each set-up, the other device is Android. I also tend to use Android when I am using SS as a paper star atlas replacement, mainly because my Android devices are smaller, lighter and cheaper than the iPad. When I do, though, I set it up on a table, put a camp stove windscreen around 3 sides of the tablet, and drape a black photographer's head shroud over the wind screen to prevent annoying other observers, especially when a white light feature pops up in the app, and to allow me to keep the screen totally dimmed and still see it well. My favorite Android tablet is still the good old 2013 Google Nexus 7 HD by Asus. I think I paid $150 for it. It is lightweight, plastic, with a softgrip backing, and the ancient Snapdragon S4 Pro processor still has just enough horsepower to push SS5 Pro at tolerable if low frame rates. My phone (LG G6) is much, much faster, but the extra screen real estate of the Nexus 7 is welcome.

Best,

Jim

Kyle Wood

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Re: new tablet and SkySafare pro
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2018, 08:30:35 AM »
Quote

This particular issue is easily addressed. Rather than using the standard Google keyboard and SkySafari red screen darkening, I use a red keyboard, either a redboard theme based on the GoKeyoard or OmegaCentauri's Gingerbread keyboard. I also use OmegaCentauri's Screendim which allow control of both brightness and contrast and allows one to save the settings.

The Android mindset is probably different that the typical Apple "do it our way" paradigm. Sometimes one has address an issue but the tools are there.

As far as needing a red screen. My friend with his iPad doesn't use one and I can see his face lit up by the screen. A good test of screen leakage is to set the tablets illumination level to your preferred settings. In the dark and with fully dark adapted eyes and without looking at the screen, illuminate a white surface with the screen and look at the reflection. What you're seeing is the light leakage.

The red screen works by blocking the vast majority of screen leakage because the leakage is white light. That in itself is a major advantage. Once the white leakage is blocked, that increases dramatically increases the contrast which allows the screen to be dimmed even more.

I use red Goggles and find that under dark skies, my dark adaptation is not affected. Most use a red screen, and that's iOS or Android.<p class="citation">QuoteMy favorite Android tablet is still the good old 2013 Google Nexus 7 HD by Asus. I think I paid $150 for it. It is lightweight, plastic, with a softgrip backing, and the ancient Snapdragon S4 Pro processor still has just enough horsepower to push SS5 Pro at tolerable if low frame rates.

[/quote]
New they were around $200. They're also my favorite and plenty fast for me. Depending on the part of the sky, a 20° x 40° field of 10th magnitude stars and 12 magnitude DSOs will pan at 10-20 fps. Even with an overly dense field like that, it's morethat fast enough for my needs.

Jon