Author Topic: UAP - are they real?  (Read 583 times)

Pat Young

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Re: UAP - are they real?
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2018, 10:37:51 PM »
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Maybe yes... maybe no. Personally I think it is highly probable that there areadvanced ET's in the universe. There is no doubt of the validity ofunidentified flying objects. It's their origin that is the question. Some appear to be beyond our "known" technology. Having read several books on Area 51 and the Igovernments work onthe U2, Oxcart (CIA)andSR-71(Air Force) and more recent stealth bombers and fighters, it is known that these have been mistakenly identified as UFO's. But that doesn't take into accountsthe high rates of acceleration and right angle turns and feats that seem beyond known technology. Keep an open mind on the subject of UFO's and ET's.

But when you apply critical thinking alien origins of UFO's tend to bite the dust. They are either misinterpretations of an actual event or an outright lie. I tend to subscribe to the latter...
It's nice that youhave the gift of "critical thinking". I guess my advanced degrees and study didn't include that ... geezzz
Nothing personal. An open mind, to me, does not mean to take UFO reports at face value and say to myself "gee, they may be right".

Take high speed right angle turns, the gold standard for UFO believers to "prove" alien technology. The only way to not only make such a turn, but to survive such a turn, would be if the mass of the craft and its occupants were 0, thus nullifying f=ma. If the craft has mass, which it surely must, all of that forward speed would have to be converted to heat and it would create quite a visual display.

Paul Woodrow

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Re: UAP - are they real?
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2018, 04:45:57 AM »
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Saying their is no aliens is like scooping a tea cup into the ocean and saying "no fish".Listen to formerAZ Governor Fife Symington on witnessing the Phoenix Lights:
https://www.youtube....h?v=v1Fh0g5wJ7AThen you have the Japan Airlines Flight 1629, piloted by a former fighter pilot with 10.000 flying hours of experience. The objects veryfied on both civil and millitary radar. This pilot got grounded for speaking what he saw, and what the radars detected.
https://www.youtube....h?v=-f3X1LDCaJEThen there is the Belgian Air Force incident, also a case with both visual and radar confirmation.

https://www.youtube....h?v=s7psGj4M1ZI

TheRendlesham Forest UFO Incident discussed byCol. Charles Halt
https://www.youtube....h?v=LfoSdNeGSrUIf they state that what they saw could not be a millitary or civilian aircraft i find it hard to not belive in what they are saying.

Absolutely correct, Thornkill. All of those are cases that I was thinking of mentioning as well, but you beat me to it.

Best,

wetrerede

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Re: UAP - are they real?
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2018, 01:26:32 AM »
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Saying their is no aliens is like scooping a tea cup into the ocean and saying "no fish".

But in that cup of water, upon close examination, will show evidence that something organic must exist.

Jaimeylos Chiessa

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Re: UAP - are they real?
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2018, 02:28:24 AM »
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Maybe yes... maybe no. Personally I think it is highly probable that there areadvanced ET's in the universe. There is no doubt of the validity ofunidentified flying objects. It's their origin that is the question. Some appear to be beyond our "known" technology. Having read several books on Area 51 and the Igovernments work onthe U2, Oxcart (CIA)andSR-71(Air Force) and more recent stealth bombers and fighters, it is known that these have been mistakenly identified as UFO's. But that doesn't take into accountsthe high rates of acceleration and right angle turns and feats that seem beyond known technology. Keep an open mind on the subject of UFO's and ET's.

But when you apply critical thinking alien origins of UFO's tend to bite the dust. They are either misinterpretations of an actual event or an outright lie. I tend to subscribe to the latter...
It's nice that youhave the gift of "critical thinking". I guess my advanced degrees and study didn't include that ... geezzz [/quote]Nothing personal. An open mind, to me, does not mean to take UFO reports at face value and say to myself "gee, they may be right".

Take high speed right angle turns, the gold standard for UFO believers to "prove" alien technology. The only way to not only make such a turn, but to survive such a turn, would be if the mass of the craft and its occupants were 0, thus nullifying f=ma. If the craft has mass, which it surely must, all of that forward speed would have to be converted to heat and it would create quite a visual display.[/quote]
Or, more radically, if the craft generates and carries its own gravity with it (due to the mechanism inherent to its propulsion system), as theorized by physicist Paul Potter in his book, Anti-Gravity Propulsion Dynamics: UFOs And Gravitational Manipulation (formerly Gravitational Manipulation of Domed Craft). This is not a book for the beginner though, so be forewarned.

Best,

Derrick Matlock

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Re: UAP - are they real?
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2018, 03:42:03 AM »
Quote

Take high speed right angle turns, the gold standard for UFO believers to "prove" alien technology. The only way to not only make such a turn, but to survive such a turn, would be if the mass of the craft and its occupants were 0, thus nullifying f=ma. If the craft has mass, which it surely must, all of that forward speed would have to be converted to heat and it would create quite a visual display.
These discussions are always silly, because it comes down to "I saw X" versus those who respond "you didn't see X because it's impossible".

I'm another one of those crazy ignorant rednecks with a Ph.D. in the sciences and a Doctorate in Law, spent a lifetime watching the sky from dark, remote places and look at everything with a skeptical eye. I'm a true skeptic, I don't believe anything without proof, but when offered proof I don't reject it as being "impossible". When I see something that we believe to be impossible, I have two options, to deny the evidence or to admit that perhaps we don't have a complete understanding of the universe. I know which option I consider more likely. As a lawyer I know that eyewitness testimony is unreliable, but that doesn't mean it's always wrong, either.

Eventually it all reminds me of 200 years ago and observers being mocked for reporting that stones fell from the skies, because it's obvious that stones are too heavy to float in the air.

asexdalo

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Re: UAP - are they real?
« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2018, 06:01:29 PM »
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Saying their is no aliens is like scooping a tea cup into the ocean and saying "no fish".Listen to formerAZ Governor Fife Symington on witnessing the Phoenix Lights:
https://www.youtube....h?v=v1Fh0g5wJ7AThen you have the Japan Airlines Flight 1629, piloted by a former fighter pilot with 10.000 flying hours of experience. The objects veryfied on both civil and millitary radar. This pilot got grounded for speaking what he saw, and what the radars detected.
https://www.youtube....h?v=-f3X1LDCaJEThen there is the Belgian Air Force incident, also a case with both visual and radar confirmation.

https://www.youtube....h?v=s7psGj4M1ZI

TheRendlesham Forest UFO Incident discussed byCol. Charles Halt
https://www.youtube....h?v=LfoSdNeGSrUIf they state that what they saw could not be a millitary or civilian aircraft i find it hard to not belive in what they are saying.


The AZ gov also play a game bringing in a man dressed as an alien.

Japan Airlines the pilot and his flight crew did not agree on what happened on the mothership part and there are many other anomalies to the case.

The Rendelesham Forest has not been validated and there were other alternatives mentioned. The fact that a person at the top of the command tree doesn’t have full comprehension of the facts or what’s happening......

Radar is not a perfect tool and there are many anomalies that occur with it. It’s also processed by computers I take it you have never had a computer error?

So far there are no conclusive facts and evidence. Everything is supposition. Look at the leaks from various agencies in the US, e.g. Snowdon and his treasonous ilk. Do you think a cover up would have survived world wide this long?

senbevekek

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Re: UAP - are they real?
« Reply #36 on: February 02, 2018, 06:23:31 PM »
Quote
Quote

Maybe yes... maybe no. Personally I think it is highly probable that there areadvanced ET's in the universe. There is no doubt of the validity ofunidentified flying objects. It's their origin that is the question. Some appear to be beyond our "known" technology. Having read several books on Area 51 and the Igovernments work onthe U2, Oxcart (CIA)andSR-71(Air Force) and more recent stealth bombers and fighters, it is known that these have been mistakenly identified as UFO's. But that doesn't take into accountsthe high rates of acceleration and right angle turns and feats that seem beyond known technology. Keep an open mind on the subject of UFO's and ET's.

But when you apply critical thinking alien origins of UFO's tend to bite the dust. They are either misinterpretations of an actual event or an outright lie. I tend to subscribe to the latter...
It's nice that youhave the gift of "critical thinking". I guess my advanced degrees and study didn't include that ... geezzz [/quote]Nothing personal. An open mind, to me, does not mean to take UFO reports at face value and say to myself "gee, they may be right".

Take high speed right angle turns, the gold standard for UFO believers to "prove" alien technology. The only way to not only make such a turn, but to survive such a turn, would be if the mass of the craft and its occupants were 0, thus nullifying f=ma. If the craft has mass, which it surely must, all of that forward speed would have to be converted to heat and it would create quite a visual display.[/quote]
Or, more radically, if the craft generates and carries its own gravity with it (due to the mechanism inherent to its propulsion system), as theorized by physicist Paul Potter in his book, Anti-Gravity Propulsion Dynamics: UFOs And Gravitational Manipulation (formerly Gravitational Manipulation of Domed Craft). This is not a book for the beginner though, so be forewarned.

Best,[/quote]
LIGO would have been going crazy. Sorry nice idea but the physics doesn’t work. There are physical research into compression of space time but you’d be towing a star to provide the energy. The amount of power required obviously would never be detected by humans........Sorry that’s fantasy.

Josh Rinderman

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Re: UAP - are they real?
« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2018, 10:28:58 PM »
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<p class="citation">QuoteTake high speed right angle turns, the gold standard for UFO believers to "prove" alien technology. The only way to not only make such a turn, but to survive such a turn, would be if the mass of the craft and its occupants were 0, thus nullifying f=ma. If the craft has mass, which it surely must, all of that forward speed would have to be converted to heat and it would create quite a visual display.
These discussions are always silly, because it comes down to "I saw X" versus those who respond "you didn't see X because it's impossible".

I'm another one of those crazy ignorant rednecks with a Ph.D. in the sciences and a Doctorate in Law, spent a lifetime watching the sky from dark, remote places and look at everything with a skeptical eye. I'm a true skeptic, I don't believe anything without proof, but when offered proof I don't reject it as being "impossible". When I see something that we believe to be impossible, I have two options, to deny the evidence or to admit that perhaps we don't have a complete understanding of the universe. I know which option I consider more likely. As a lawyer I know that eyewitness testimony is unreliable, but that doesn't mean it's always wrong, either.

Eventually it all reminds me of 200 years ago and observers being mocked for reporting that stones fell from the skies, because it's obvious that stones are too heavy to float in the air.[/quote]
I’ve worked in Aviation most of my life and there is another factor and that is your seeing something you don’t understand. But your applying your preprogrammed logic against what you are seeing and reaching an erroneous conclusion.

monsresiwor

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Re: UAP - are they real?
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2018, 07:18:10 PM »
Not saying their are no aliens, statistically more than likely the universe is full of life. What I don’t buy is traveling the distance and time span involved is very unlikely.

ransgesislu

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Re: UAP - are they real?
« Reply #39 on: February 09, 2018, 03:17:12 AM »
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Quote

Saying their is no aliens is like scooping a tea cup into the ocean and saying "no fish".Listen to formerAZ Governor Fife Symington on witnessing the Phoenix Lights:
https://www.youtube....h?v=v1Fh0g5wJ7AThen you have the Japan Airlines Flight 1629, piloted by a former fighter pilot with 10.000 flying hours of experience. The objects veryfied on both civil and millitary radar. This pilot got grounded for speaking what he saw, and what the radars detected.
https://www.youtube....h?v=-f3X1LDCaJEThen there is the Belgian Air Force incident, also a case with both visual and radar confirmation.

https://www.youtube....h?v=s7psGj4M1ZI

TheRendlesham Forest UFO Incident discussed byCol. Charles Halt
https://www.youtube....h?v=LfoSdNeGSrUIf they state that what they saw could not be a millitary or civilian aircraft i find it hard to not belive in what they are saying.


The AZ gov also play a game bringing in a man dressed as an alien.

Japan Airlines the pilot and his flight crew did not agree on what happened on the mothership part and there are many other anomalies to the case.

The Rendelesham Forest has not been validated and there were other alternatives mentioned. The fact that a person at the top of the command tree doesn’t have full comprehension of the facts or what’s happening......

Radar is not a perfect tool and there are many anomalies that occur with it. It’s also processed by computers I take it you have never had a computer error?

So far there are no conclusive facts and evidence. Everything is supposition. Look at the leaks from various agencies in the US, e.g. Snowdon and his treasonous ilk. Do you think a cover up would have survived world wide this long?
I think that it is unlikely that all these people all over the world try to syncronise a story to "tell a lie about ufo`s", spending half theyre life telling the same story, only to fool others, or to get attention. Gov Fife Symington explained why they did the "alien press conferense" as to calm the public down, and he also say he would have handled it differently today. Why on earth does he speak out about it now you think?

Yes i had computer problems, but it is a different thing when the airplanes radar, the civilian ground based radar and a military ground based radar pick it up, quite a coordinated "blue screen". The voice records of trafic control asking the pilot if he can confirm the radar observations is not likely to be a computer error.

Daniel Lacasse

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Re: UAP - are they real?
« Reply #40 on: February 09, 2018, 04:02:11 AM »
November 9, 1978

Ambassador Griffith
Mission of Grenada to the United NationsDear Ambassador Griffith:

I wanted to convey to you my views on our extra-terrestrial visitors popularly referred to as "UFO's", and suggest what might be done to properly deal with them.
I believe that these extra-terrestrial vehicles and their crews are visiting this planet from other planets, which obviously are a little more technically advanced than we are here on earth. I feel that we need to have a top level, coordinated program to scientifically collect and analyze data from all over earth concerning any type of encounter, and to determine how best to interface with these visitors in a friendly fashion. We my first have to show them that we have learned to resolve our problems by peaceful means, rather than warfare, before we are accepted as fully qualified universal team members. This acceptance would have tremendous possibilities of advancing our world in all areas. Certainly then it would seem that the UN has a vested interest in handling this subject properly and expeditiously.
I should point out that I am not an experienced UFO professional researcher. I have not yet had the privilege of flying a UFO, nor of meeting the crew of one. I do feel that I am somewhat qualified to discuss them since I have been into the fringes of the vast areas in which they travel. Also, I did have occasion in 1951 to have two days of observation of many flights of them, of different sizes, flying in fighter formation, generally from east to west over Europe. They were at a higher altitude than we could reach with our jet fighters of that time.
I would also like to point out that most astronauts are very reluctant to even discuss UFO's due to the great numbers of people who have indiscriminately sold fake stories and forged documents abusing their names and reputations without hesitation. Those few astronauts who have continued to have a participation in the UFO field have had to do so very cautiously. There are several of us who do believe in UFO's and who have had occasion to see a UFO on the ground, or from an airplane. There was only one occasion from space which may have been a UFO.
If the UN agrees to pursue this project, and to lend their credibility to it, perhaps many more well qualified people will agree to step forth and provide help and information.
I am looking forward to seeing you soon.

Sincerely,
L. Gordon Cooper
Col. USAF

Of course Phil, we may have to agree to disagree like gentlemen, as per the TOS. Nevertheless, I have always enjoyed a friendly debate, hence my ongoing contributions to this thread. I believe all aspects of every phenomenon ought to be explored and not automatically dismissed out of hand. “Just as there are those who accept every UFO report at face value, there are also those who dismiss the idea of alien visitation out of hand and with great passion. It is, they say, unnecessary to examine the evidence, and “unscientific” even to contemplate the issue. I once helped to organize a public debate at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science between proponent and opponent scientists of the proposition that some UFOs were spaceships; whereupon a distinguished physicist, whose judgment in many other matters I respected, threatened to sic the Vice President of the United States on me if I persisted in this madness." --Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark.
That is the kind of scientist and astronomer that I have decided not to be.
I hope that you will not misinterpret anything that I have said here, but realize the respectful spirit in which it was contributed. I realize you are doubtless much older and more experienced than I. Nevertheless, there are more things in heaven and earth than are found in anyone's philosophy or theoretical model. In other words, we don't yet know and ought to keep looking for answers.

All the best,

Martin.

knucareaslo

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Re: UAP - are they real?
« Reply #41 on: February 09, 2018, 09:13:14 AM »
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Not saying their are no aliens, statistically more than likely the universe is full of life. What I don’t buy is traveling the distance and time span involved is very unlikely.

I completely understand your point, sir.