Author Topic: "Smart" street lighting: the ultimate solution?  (Read 74 times)

cytiwitqua

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Re: "Smart" street lighting: the ultimate solution?
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2018, 05:16:10 PM »
Maybe someone has a list of which "smart" lights have surveillance capability but I have found that GE and Phillips lights do.

esicnatka

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Re: "Smart" street lighting: the ultimate solution?
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2018, 11:21:58 PM »
FYI I don't know if this is "smart" lighting but a lot of my neighbors have taken to installing bright lighting with motion detector systems.

So I'll be outside in my yard with my telescope and camera and it's nice and dark and starry and awesome and a squirrel or a raccoon or opossum wanders through their yard and all their lights turn on like an airport runway. The animals are so used to it they just sit there like nothing has happened and the lights stay on long after they leave and a few minutes later it all starts up again- very annoying.

I usually go outside after midnight when lights are supposed to be less impactful, but these motion detector lights come on randomly throughout the night.

libulbinis

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Re: "Smart" street lighting: the ultimate solution?
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2018, 01:21:07 AM »
Most motion detector lights have settings for length of time on, and also what triggers them (sensitivity). However, most people don't read the instructions, simply install & forget.

housletica

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Re: "Smart" street lighting: the ultimate solution?
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2018, 08:54:42 AM »
Quote
Most motion detector lights have settings for length of time on, and also what triggers them (sensitivity). However, most people don't read the instructions, simply install & forget.

My neighbors' back lights used to turn on when a leaf blew near them or I stepped out on my porch. They adjusted them recently and now they rarely come on. They do have a front light that bounces off the trees into my yard that is annoying, though.

manreistilles

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Re: "Smart" street lighting: the ultimate solution?
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2018, 03:09:43 PM »
Motion sensors are similar to smart lighting but not the same. Smart street lights are networked so that if one part of the block (for example) detects movement, the entire block would light up. This would allow drivers to see what's ahead of them. George N described some of the other ways they can be used to be more intelligent and economical about lighting. They feed data back to city planners so they can reprogram and optimize the lighting.

As for motion-detecting lights, I think these are definitely positive and to be encouraged because they are better than having a light left on all night, 100% of the time. While you may have some problems with individual lights, if you average them out over a whole city, that's a lot less light being dumped into the sky.

cludertypos

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Re: "Smart" street lighting: the ultimate solution?
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2018, 02:36:47 AM »
Makes you wonder why cars have head lights.

pensranbafarc

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Re: "Smart" street lighting: the ultimate solution?
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2018, 01:24:56 AM »
Check out this YouTube vid for a description of the basic idea: https://www.youtube....h?v=3ruXevD4Teo

One of the companies pushing this tech is Verizon - because they want to sell the networking.

Mayur Wilson

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Re: "Smart" street lighting: the ultimate solution?
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2018, 02:29:50 AM »
Quote
Makes you wonder why cars have head lights.


For folks like me, who live in places like NY's Adirondacks. Last week I drove two nights for over an hour and saw maybe6 streetlights total, in 50 or 60 miles of travel, to reach my camp on Indian Lake, NY. I took the attached photo on 9/10/17 standing about 50 feet from the camp's front door. The light on the wooded shore in this 30 sec exposure was from a spotlight on a boat - soon turned off.

Attached Thumbnails




lorndwatassi

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Re: "Smart" street lighting: the ultimate solution?
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2018, 12:51:44 AM »
Quote
Quote

Makes you wonder why cars have head lights.


For folks like me, who live in places like NY's Adirondacks. Last week I drove two nights for over an hour and saw maybe6 streetlights total, in 50 or 60 miles of travel, to reach my camp on Indian Lake, NY. I took the attached photo on 9/10/17 standing about 50 feet from the camp's front door. The light on the wooded shore in this 30 sec exposure was from a spotlight on a boat - soon turned off.
That was sarcasm. I used to forget to turn my headlights on because of all the streetlights. Now I live where there are almost none.

Richard Gayer

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Re: "Smart" street lighting: the ultimate solution?
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2018, 08:02:58 PM »
Quote
Quote

Quote

Such systems do work and have been in place in a number of towns and small cities on other continents for some time. However, it is unlikely that you will ever see them catch on in the U.S.A. Our society is far too law suit crazy, people looking for any excuse to create a civil law suit.

Well, I've got good news for you: this year, Chicago and San Diego chose to invest hundreds of millions in smart lighting. Obviously, these are pretty big fish and their example will make it a lot easier for other cities to follow suit.

The only question in my mind is how much impact on light pollution this will have. They may choose to use the shut-off and dimming features very conservatively, although they are of course incentivized to use it liberally as it directly translates to cost savings. It's hard to predict right now, though.
>The only question in my mind is how much impact on light pollution this will have. They may choose to use the shut-off and dimming features very conservatively...........

.....and that is the reason for a continued push for anti-LP laws and local/state"activism" by amateur astronomers. Setting at your PC and complaining is pretty much assured to accomplish nothing.

BTW, I have posted over the years about these "smart lighting systems", and it seems that at least some USA cities are implementing them now. To the best of my knowledge they do not involve video cameras, but other types of sensors, mostly weather and traffic rate sensors. What times, traffic and weather conditions equal what lighting level is programmable into the system. The Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute Lighting Research Institute (for profit I believe http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/) has been a long-time proponent and designer of such systems and will assist local gov with them - in addition to design needed to comply with the anti-LP laws in the New England states for example. The RPI Lighting Research Center has the "science" and data to back up there claims...... in court if necessary...... and they have lawyers too.

I think it is only a matter of time before "smart lighting" spreads to many out-door light systems (and indoor too), simply because it is cost effective, and provides more effective lighting.

Brother George, I've been hearing claims like that being offered for more than 50 years now for all manner of viewing benefits the next innovation in lighting systems/practices would bring. Never once in all that time have I seen a noticeable major improvement...save for areas where the local presence of professional observatories, or specific historical venues, weighed heavily with the local residents. I've likewise repeatedly read how various places such as in New England have claimed that their latest enacted municipal lighting laws were making very significant inroads into reducing light pollution. Then I'd visit the the locations if familiar with their "before" situation just to see...and just about laugh myself sick!

I'm afraid that believing a major change in the situation is just around the corner is a view mostly harbored by those with limited tenure in the hobby, or lack of knowledge of just how bad the skies in most regions are already. It's a pipe dream that has passed from one generation to the next from the late 1950's forward, one I cannot imagine how can be so self perpetuated this long and yet still believed by so many hobbyists.

BrooksObs

xenjavabve

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Re: "Smart" street lighting: the ultimate solution?
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2018, 04:57:47 AM »
Do dark sky organizations have a service where light levels are quantitatively measured so claims of improvements can be measured and evaluated?

exjeraca

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Re: "Smart" street lighting: the ultimate solution?
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2018, 08:38:08 AM »
Quote
Do dark sky organizations have a service where light levels are quantitatively measured so claims of improvements can be measured and evaluated?

http://azdailysun.co...f3a3006119.html

And since you specifically asked for a "dark sky organization":

http://www.darksky.o...k-sky-advocacy/

James Runninger

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Re: "Smart" street lighting: the ultimate solution?
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2018, 06:03:33 PM »
Quote
The Mayor said "Since the brighter lights make the Penn State students *feel* safer, we need to keep them anyway, even tho they probably don't reduce crime."

This is indeed a problem. Since guns are another of my hobbies, I participate in some online firearms forums. One has an ongoing discussion of security lighting. I commented that it's possible to have effective security lighting, using shielded fixtures with low wattage bulbs, without lighting up your property and that of your neighbors like it was high noon on a sunny day. The response was quite negative. The consensus was (1) it's a law of nature, right up there with Newton's laws, that bright lights deter criminals and (2) they refuse to sacrifice the safety of their families and themselves for my astronomy hobby.

Calvin Dolla

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Re: "Smart" street lighting: the ultimate solution?
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2018, 06:26:55 PM »
Quote
Quote

The Mayor said "Since the brighter lights make the Penn State students *feel* safer, we need to keep them anyway, even tho they probably don't reduce crime."

This is indeed a problem. Since guns are another of my hobbies, I participate in some online firearms forums. One has an ongoing discussion of security lighting. I commented that it's possible to have effective security lighting, using shielded fixtures with low wattage bulbs, without lighting up your property and that of your neighbors like it was high noon on a sunny day. The response was quite negative. The consensus was (1) it's a law of nature, right up there with Newton's laws, that bright lights deter criminals and (2) they refuse to sacrifice the safety of their families and themselves for my astronomy hobby.
I guess they aren't literate in the fact that it increases cancer risks. This is why it's so much better to live far away from those people- I wouldn't put up with people like that and would be liable to do something they don't like. I have very little patience for people of that type.

John Wilson

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Re: "Smart" street lighting: the ultimate solution?
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2018, 07:39:55 PM »
Quote
Quote

Such systems do work and have been in place in a number of towns and small cities on other continents for some time. However, it is unlikely that you will ever see them catch on in the U.S.A. Our society is far too law suit crazy, people looking for any excuse to create a civil law suit.

Well, I've got good news for you: this year, Chicago and San Diego chose to invest hundreds of millions in smart lighting. Obviously, these are pretty big fish and their example will make it a lot easier for other cities to follow suit.

The only question in my mind is how much impact on light pollution this will have. They may choose to use the shut-off and dimming features very conservatively, although they are of course incentivized to use it liberally as it directly translates to cost savings. It's hard to predict right now, though.
>The only question in my mind is how much impact on light pollution this will have. They may choose to use the shut-off and dimming features very conservatively...........

.....and that is the reason for a continued push for anti-LP laws and local/state"activism" by amateur astronomers. Setting at your PC and complaining is pretty much assured to accomplish nothing.

BTW, I have posted over the years about these "smart lighting systems", and it seems that at least some USA cities are implementing them now. To the best of my knowledge they do not involve video cameras, but other types of sensors, mostly weather and traffic rate sensors. What times, traffic and weather conditions equal what lighting level is programmable into the system. The Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute Lighting Research Institute (for profit I believe http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/) has been a long-time proponent and designer of such systems and will assist local gov with them - in addition to design needed to comply with the anti-LP laws in the New England states for example. The RPI Lighting Research Center has the "science" and data to back up there claims...... in court if necessary...... and they have lawyers too.

I think it is only a matter of time before "smart lighting" spreads to many out-door light systems (and indoor too), simply because it is cost effective, and provides more effective lighting.[/quote]

Brother George, I've been hearing claims like that being offered for more than 50 years now for all manner of viewing benefits the next innovation in lighting systems/practices would bring. Never once in all that time have I seen a noticeable major improvement...save for areas where the local presence of professional observatories, or specific historical venues, weighed heavily with the local residents. I've likewise repeatedly read how various places such as in New England have claimed that their latest enacted municipal lighting laws were making very significant inroads into reducing light pollution. Then I'd visit the the locations if familiar with their "before" situation just to see...and just about laugh myself sick!

I'm afraid that believing a major change in the situation is just around the corner is a view mostly harbored by those with limited tenure in the hobby, or lack of knowledge of just how bad the skies in most regions are already. It's a pipe dream that has passed from one generation to the next from the late 1950's forward, one I cannot imagine how can be so self perpetuated this long and yet still believed by so many hobbyists.

BrooksObs[/quote]
The big elephant in the room (and the one which most effects light pollution and the rest of the ills we are causing to the environment) is the fact that humanity has overpopulated the planet. We tend to live in densely populated unhealthy cities and our large numbers put a tax on limited resources. This planet wasn't built to handle billions of human beings- it just wasn't. So either we do something to limit that ourselves or nature will handle it.