Author Topic: "The Detroit Success Story Visible From Space"  (Read 199 times)

renjaysunsdis

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"The Detroit Success Story Visible From Space"
« on: December 24, 2017, 04:11:59 PM »
http://www.politico....-project-215159

However, the report appears to be celebrating how bright the town is from Space which is a bit unusual for a left of center book (origin: WaPo).

It speculates that when the photo was taken three decades back, with all the lights outside and being sodium, Detroit would be much dimmer.  (no real facts here).  Hard to compare since before the conversion ". . .half of its 88,000 streetlights were darkened..."

It'll be interesting to see comparisons of Chicago if they finish the LED conversion.   Contrary to Detroit, it will be more a of a 1:1 replacement.   This is possible with all the Suomi satellite.



Stephen Gupta

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Re: "The Detroit Success Story Visible From Space"
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2017, 11:45:20 AM »
Yeah, and I wonder what temperature LEDs they installed there in Detroit--article makes no mention of that.

smarhurtfranoth

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Re: "The Detroit Success Story Visible From Space"
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2017, 11:51:45 AM »
OH JOY!

aftilicomp

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Re: "The Detroit Success Story Visible From Space"
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2017, 01:21:28 PM »
Quote
"...half of its 88,000 streetlights were dark..."
Sounds like a plan.

Or a good start, at least.

Chris Ingram

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Re: "The Detroit Success Story Visible From Space"
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2017, 07:14:03 PM »
Will the last person to leave Detroit please turn the lights off?

Jon Venning

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Re: "The Detroit Success Story Visible From Space"
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2017, 01:34:09 AM »
To anyone who think we are getting light pollution under control, just look at that picture and how proud they are of lighting the place up.

Levi Cruse

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Re: "The Detroit Success Story Visible From Space"
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2018, 01:28:51 PM »
Yeah and now they can do it on "the cheap" (lighting up the place), w/ the lower cost LEDS now...as someone above said, Oh Joy....

galpaydabta

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Re: "The Detroit Success Story Visible From Space"
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2018, 02:23:51 PM »
How badly did Detroit's light pollution increase in the past few years? Any SE Michigan observers want to chime in? And was the increase more because of the LED's, or the fact that large portions of Detroit didn't have streetlights for a while?

Clear Skies,
Phil

Cesar Norris

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Re: "The Detroit Success Story Visible From Space"
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2018, 09:36:48 PM »
Two important factors in light pollution are population density and the technological factor.

Detroit was never particularly densely populated to begin with and its density decreased in recent decades and some lighting was eventually reduced.

Its population might rebound, but with the new technological factor of the LED working alongside. How the LEDs are actually implemented there will determine the new tech factor, high or low.

But turning the lights back on is going to increase the light pollution and the extent and severity of Detroit's light dome.

Ryan Fletcher

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Re: "The Detroit Success Story Visible From Space"
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2018, 10:02:58 PM »
Thats not new lighting...thats gunfire you can now see because they turned off more lights.

kondcongrese

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Re: "The Detroit Success Story Visible From Space"
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2018, 02:40:54 AM »
Quote
Two important factors in light pollution are population density and the technological factor.

......


Yes - a good "rule of thumb" is: "number of people is proportional to level of light pollution", and "public works" (public lighting) is proportional to the "economy".

In an article in today's NY Times it notes that while the big cities of the Northern Tier of states are allbecoming more dense in their urban centers, and less "suburban", the Southern and Sun Belt cities are still becoming more "suburban". The Northern cities are growing "up", while the Sun Belt cities are "spreading out".I'm sure that over the coming years the level of LP will follow.

Nearly every county in "upstate" NY continues to have population decline (and forest level increase). The same is true in "interior" New England. Much of this relates to economic decline. The result has to be less LP, at least in the long run. ......same with Detroit.

micnoasolos

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Re: "The Detroit Success Story Visible From Space"
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2018, 01:07:02 AM »
Quote
Quote

Two important factors in light pollution are population density and the technological factor.

......


Yes - a good "rule of thumb" is: "number of people is proportional to level of light pollution", and "public works" (public lighting) is proportional to the "economy".

In an article in today's NY Times it notes that while the big cities of the Northern Tier of states are allbecoming more dense in their urban centers, and less "suburban", the Southern and Sun Belt cities are still becoming more "suburban". The Northern cities are growing "up", while the Sun Belt cities are "spreading out".I'm sure that over the coming years the level of LP will follow.

Nearly every county in "upstate" NY continues to have population decline (and forest level increase). The same is true in "interior" New England. Much of this relates to economic decline. The result has to be less LP, at least in the long run. ......same with Detroit.
The tech factor will remain a problem. Fewer people in a given area helps with light pollution, but not if lighting becomes so cheap and convenient that one can be careless with it.

200 years ago, candles or whale oil were the practical means of creating light, but there were only so many whales, so not much light pollution potential. Today, a few LEDs or CFLs can really mess things up and we are not limited to just a few LEDs or CFLs.

laycacdownsell

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Re: "The Detroit Success Story Visible From Space"
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2018, 01:45:58 PM »
A careful reading of the article indicates it's not all bad. The article says they are full cut-off LEDs and they're using fewer streetlights than before. It also says that people are complaining about those aspects

genssizafa

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Re: "The Detroit Success Story Visible From Space"
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2018, 10:49:56 PM »
Quote
Quote

Two important factors in light pollution are population density and the technological factor.

......


Yes - a good "rule of thumb" is: "number of people is proportional to level of light pollution", and "public works" (public lighting) is proportional to the "economy".

In an article in today's NY Times it notes that while the big cities of the Northern Tier of states are allbecoming more dense in their urban centers, and less "suburban", the Southern and Sun Belt cities are still becoming more "suburban". The Northern cities are growing "up", while the Sun Belt cities are "spreading out".I'm sure that over the coming years the level of LP will follow.

Nearly every county in "upstate" NY continues to have population decline (and forest level increase). The same is true in "interior" New England. Much of this relates to economic decline. The result has to be less LP, at least in the long run. ......same with Detroit.
Now you are undoubtedly correct in regard to up state and western NY, George, but as for New England, save perhaps the remote northernmost parts of VT, NH and ME, I can vouch to the fact that urban sprawl and accompanying light pollution continue to expand. For a great many years I've made the annual trip up to the Stellafane convention and often drive back home after darkness has fallen. I always note the degree of illumination in the sky as I do so. Each year the level of that illumination in the sky has grown progressively greater. Where once it was inky dark all along much of Route 91 traveling south except for when approaching Springfield, MA, Hartford, CT, and ultimately the southern coast, I witnessed a slowly advancing wave of light move northward that eventually joined all the population centers into one grand glow over the years. Today that glow is visible to a noticeable degree in the southern sky even from Stellafane itself, roughly 40 miles above Vermont's southern border. And anyone making this yearly venture notes new construction each time. I expect that southern New Hampshire fairs about the same since both regions are vacation havens or second home locations for many middle and upper class families.

Over the six decades that I have been in the hobby I have never once witnessed a notable slowing, or even hesitation, in the progressive expansion of light pollution in the New England region or southeastern New York.

BrooksObs

senbevekek

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Re: "The Detroit Success Story Visible From Space"
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2018, 11:53:23 AM »
Quote
Quote

Quote

Two important factors in light pollution are population density and the technological factor.

......


Yes - a good "rule of thumb" is: "number of people is proportional to level of light pollution", and "public works" (public lighting) is proportional to the "economy".

In an article in today's NY Times it notes that while the big cities of the Northern Tier of states are allbecoming more dense in their urban centers, and less "suburban", the Southern and Sun Belt cities are still becoming more "suburban". The Northern cities are growing "up", while the Sun Belt cities are "spreading out".I'm sure that over the coming years the level of LP will follow.

Nearly every county in "upstate" NY continues to have population decline (and forest level increase). The same is true in "interior" New England. Much of this relates to economic decline. The result has to be less LP, at least in the long run. ......same with Detroit.
Now you are undoubtedly correct in regard to up state and western NY, George, but as for New England, save perhaps the remote northernmost parts of VT, NH and ME, I can vouch to the fact that urban sprawl and accompanying light pollution continue to expand. For a great many years I've made the annual trip up to the Stellafane convention and often drive back home after darkness has fallen. I always note the degree of illumination in the sky as I do so. Each year the level of that illumination in the sky has grown progressively greater. Where once it was inky dark all along much of Route 91 traveling south except for when approaching Springfield, MA, Hartford, CT, and ultimately the southern coast, I witnessed a slowly advancing wave of light move northward that eventually joined all the population centers into one grand glow over the years. Today that glow is visible to a noticeable degree in the southern sky even from Stellafane itself, roughly 40 miles above Vermont's southern border. And anyone making this yearly venture notes new construction each time. I expect that southern New Hampshire fairs about the same since both regions are vacation havens or second home locations for many middle and upper class families.

Over the six decades that I have been in the hobby I have never once witnessed a notable slowing, or even hesitation, in the progressive expansion of light pollution in the New England region or southeastern New York.

BrooksObs
Northern CT is getting worse by the year-I second that the entire region is getting worse. My families vacation area in New Hampshire has gotten significantly worse in the last two years, where it was once a green zone it is now Yellow. This worsening correlates to the introduction of LEDs. BrooksObs is cynical about all of this, and rightfully so-unfortunately. We cannot give up, in spite of the odds of winning Powerball being better than making progress with this issue.