Author Topic: A Nobel Prize for Ruining the Night Skies  (Read 81 times)

John Pfister

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A Nobel Prize for Ruining the Night Skies
« on: December 23, 2017, 10:38:19 PM »
I really don't mean to be unjust, and I surely love the magnificent contribution to basic physics of the most recent recipients of the Nobel Prize; but, what a pity that their job will destroy what's left of darkness, and doom billions to suffer from sleep disturbances and other disorders.  As mentioned in the New York Times:

"2 1 and Japanese American Conversation Nobel in Physics for Function on LED Lights"

As the article correctly states, there is no such thing as a natively white light LED.  "White" LEDs are actually blue, with much, but not all, of the blue filtered away.  The consequent blueish-white bounces through the air better than any other color (remember why the sky appears blue?) , so that protected "white" LED fixtures produce twice the skies glow of Sodium arc lights since the blue cast wreaks havoc on the production of melatonin, ruining sleep cycles.  Ah, the advantages of bringing the contemporary world into so many!



wallnewsspheryz

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Re: A Nobel Prize for Ruining the Night Skies
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2017, 03:05:07 AM »
The widespread use of LED technology does not equal "bad" lighting. How the technology is ultimately applied -- that's our decision.

schemsucopost

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Re: A Nobel Prize for Ruining the Night Skies
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2017, 05:58:36 AM »
It is true in general that technologies can be used for good or ill, or both. The problem with filtered blue LEDs is that they are a chimera. While truly reducing consumption of electricity, they falsely pretend to be a panacea. The lighting designers tell us not to worry, because the fixtures will be shielded; yet, even with the shields, blue light bounces skyward worse than the light it replaces. Worse, shielded or not, the blue light disturbs Circadian rhythms, so the current problem of sleep in the developed world will be significantly increased. No matter how we use these lights outdoors at night, they are inexpensive, but harmful.

asexdalo

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Re: A Nobel Prize for Ruining the Night Skies
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2018, 11:11:50 AM »
There is a good side to that. Along with an alarm clock going off in the moring, which I can turn off and go back to sleep, I could also have a relatively bright LED blue light come on to tell those little daytime sensors in my eyes that it is time to wake up. Tungsten bulbs just do not get that job done.

Bill Steen

Darren Hatch

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Re: A Nobel Prize for Ruining the Night Skies
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2018, 03:47:02 PM »
So why'd they put a blue LED light on the TV when its "Off", turns red when its "On"...........agree that its a distraction, finally just unplugged the thing......

Douglas Preece

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Re: A Nobel Prize for Ruining the Night Skies
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2018, 03:01:13 AM »
Well, LEDs are always fully shielded in my area, so if they were half as bright, they would mostly end light pollution.

Tyler Fonseca

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Re: A Nobel Prize for Ruining the Night Skies
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2018, 05:41:38 PM »
I am positive that, despite the fact that LED lighting is inherently unhealthy for widespread nighttime illumination and due to its low energy needs lends itself to overproliferation, it will be used in a wise and restrained manner. Why, just look at all the blessings which past technological advancements, such as dynamite and nuclear fission, have showered us with; surely we will deal with this latest advancement with the firm hand of reason, as well.
/sarc off

Junee Hunt

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Re: A Nobel Prize for Ruining the Night Skies
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2018, 04:31:20 AM »
Quote
I am positive that, despite the fact that LED lighting is inherently unhealthy for widespread nighttime illumination and due to its low energy needs lends itself to overproliferation, it will be used in a wise and restrained manner. Why, just look at all the blessings which past technological advancements, such as dynamite and nuclear fission, have showered us with; surely we will deal with this latest advancement with the firm hand of reason, as well.
/sarc offWe always make the right choices when it comes to money and technology.I can't wait to see how wisely and judiciously LEDS are implemented.It will no doubt be a boon to our hobby. health, the environment and security everywhere.


middbankrecra

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Re: A Nobel Prize for Ruining the Night Skies
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2018, 04:30:49 PM »
Yep.

dark skies

Jack

Randy Wiggins

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Re: A Nobel Prize for Ruining the Night Skies
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2018, 03:51:29 AM »
Quote
Well, LEDs are always fully shielded in my area, so if they were half as bright, they would mostly end light pollution.

No. If they were half as bright, since they are twice as damaging, the damage would be the somewhat comparable to that from current lighting, yet worse, since blue light bounces around more in the atmosphere.

Cesar Lawhorn

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Re: A Nobel Prize for Ruining the Night Skies
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2018, 06:58:57 AM »
Quote
The widespread use of LED technology does not equal "bad" lighting. How the technology is ultimately applied -- that's our decision.

How have wedone so far with the lighting that already exists. There is no reason tobelieve LED's will be used any differently. It seems lighting up the landscape is really popular, as is lighting up every new bridge and building,existing ones too.

Jerome Fountain

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Re: A Nobel Prize for Ruining the Night Skies
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2018, 08:50:23 AM »
Humans have always been afraid of the dark. Nightfall created fear of falling victim to unseen nocturnal predators. Any technology that has increased the amount and brightness of outdoor lighting has been seen as progress by most people.For those of us who want dark skies at night to engage in Astronomy the unfortunate reality is that most people do not care about Astronomy and see more outdoor lighting as the only way they can feel safe going out at night.

excunisep

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Re: A Nobel Prize for Ruining the Night Skies
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2018, 11:31:02 AM »
Well, at the rate we're going, in less than 100 years, we'll have dark skies....no more people, animals, or other living things, but dark skies.....

Tye Paez

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Re: A Nobel Prize for Ruining the Night Skies
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2018, 11:47:58 PM »
Quote
Well, at the rate we're going, in less than 100 years, we'll have dark skies....no more people, animals, or other living things, but dark skies.....


Word.

liomocharla

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Re: A Nobel Prize for Ruining the Night Skies
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2018, 06:13:52 AM »
LED technology is pretty young, but already offers a number of ways to reduce light pollution:

LEDs are easily switched on and off. This can help avoid the bane of commercial building lights left on through the night, and offers ways to save power for indoor and outdoor lighting.

LEDs are compact, so an outdoor light fixture (consisting of many samll LED emitters,plus electronic controls and heat sink) can easily be made with a flat or concave light source that lends itself to full cutoff lighting

Many LEDs are dimmable.Outdoor lighting could become responsive to traffic so LP from nearby roads at least becomes intermittent.

Some newLEDS are color-tunable, they don't have to be excess blue lightemittors.

The prospects for easy use in better fixtures (cutoff) at least can help keep LED light where it needs to be and help avoid wasted glare and upward light skyglow.

Maybe LEDs are lightweight enough and long-lived enought that they can be placed inless accessiblelocations to provide downward lighting of signs and billboards and help do away with this notorious source of uplight.

A full-cutoff, even, low-intensity lighting systemthat uses the'bad' new LEDs is arguably better than a non-cutoff or partial cutoff lighting system with glare and uplightthat uses'good' old sodium vapor lights...
Engage with local government and with public comment opportunities for new construction, to make sure LEDs are used to best effort and save energy without adding to light pollution.