Author Topic: Neighbor purposely removed light shield  (Read 324 times)

grateganir

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Re: Neighbor purposely removed light shield
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2018, 02:44:55 PM »
To the last two posts; let's stay on the topic of LP, period.  Burning tires, loud music is way off topic here.  If you wish to discuss those issues, the OTO would be a great place.

dustsungline

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Re: Neighbor purposely removed light shield
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2018, 03:25:55 PM »
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let's stay on the topic of LP, period.
A bright unshielded light on private land 2 metres from my bedroom window is no better or worse than an enormous searchlight aimed at my window from 2 kilometres away on private land. The result is the same - namely light pollution. I cannot and will not respect it and I seriously doubt if anybody here would respect it either, even if the culprits happen to be elderly and suffered from severe light deprivation in the past.The moment we start getting soft on light pollution and the polluters we may as well just give up entirely.

foarehortalp

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Re: Neighbor purposely removed light shield
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2018, 02:22:28 AM »
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I really <em class="bbc">don't care what reasons people feel they have for causing light pollution, it doesn't stop it being light pollution.

A bright unshielded light on private land 2 metres from my bedroom window is no better or worse than an enormous searchlight aimed at my window from 2 kilometres away on private land. The result is the same - namely light pollution.

Correct -  <strong class="bbc">MOST[/b] countries have either state or provincial legislation that provides a framework for redress in this situation, which the OP has already stated that they have leverage.

Conversely, and again in  <strong class="bbc">most[/b] countries, the same legislative framework is not likely to have the same impact if the affected parts of your property is  <strong class="bbc">NOT[/b] the bedroom or any reception room in your house.

That is to say, there is a  <strong class="bbc">BIG[/b] difference between the offending light illuminating only the back wall of a standalone garage versus as in this case, lighting up your bedroom via your beedroom window.

Further.., if a person next door has always had a security light on at night that only affected land that you were not using, but then you decide to build your observatory on that same spot, you must talk to your neighbour first, then consult legislation.

<p class="citation">Quote
The moment we start getting soft on light pollution and the polluters we may as well just give up entirely.[/quote]

Who's the  <strong class="bbc"> <em class="bbc">WE [/b], here?

Regards,

skybsd

Ronnie Walsh

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Re: Neighbor purposely removed light shield
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2018, 03:21:26 AM »
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if a person next door has always had a security light on at night that only affected land that you were not using, but then you decide to build your observatory on that same spot, you must talk to your neighbour first, then consult legislation.
I'm not sure that you must first make the offending party aware that they are breaching applicable light pollution laws before requesting the law be applied and enforced by the appropriate authorities. I'm pretty certain you can just go to your local council office and ask <em class="bbc">them to explain the applicable law to the polluter. That's definitely how it is where I live. Of course, I'd probably attempt to make the offending party see reason, but if I thought that was not likely to achieve anything I'd just ask the council inspectors to do it for me. Every year I'm compelled by law to pay the council a lot of rates (aka property taxes) so I have no hesitation in requesting they do their job when required.  <p class="citation">Quote<p class="citation">QuoteThe moment we start getting soft on light pollution and the polluters we may as well just give up entirely.[/quote]Who's the  <strong class="bbc"> <em class="bbc">WE [/b], here?[/quote]Amateur astronomers? People who don't think light pollution should be cravenly tolerated? Simpering and excusing light polluters for any reason <em class="bbc">is being soft on them and light pollution. It's one of those 'give them an inch and they'll take a mile' situations. If those who pollute believe they will be permitted to pollute and get away with it, then they won't hesitate for a second before polluting. I don't care if they are elderly and have fear issues. I'm going to be as determined with them as I would with some shonky strip mall developer who flouts the law.

cokoksmarous

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Re: Neighbor purposely removed light shield
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2018, 09:57:59 AM »
Hello,
    Sooo.., I'll not pretend to know the law where you are, but in most places, the act of "leaving a light on" <strong class="bbc">is_not_against_the_law[/b] in itself.

The law (at least in the UK) actually refers to this matter under cases of "statutory nuisance". In taking action against someone (or company) using this vehicle requires the complainant to give clear reasons as to why your health or enjoyment of your property is badly affected. It also obligates you as the complainant to: -

1. Record the problem
2. Speak to the light owner
3. Confirm the lighting is covered under legislation

before deciding to take any legal action.

Note that even if you decide to bring a civil action yourself against the other party, the magistrate is still obliged to turn to the incumbent local authority's Environmental Health Department for a judgement, and is not likely to favour the fact that steps [1] &amp; [2] above were not performed.

No one is advocating that your lifestyle is of any less worth that anyone else's. At the same time, it is hardly useful to start demonizing others for the simple fact that they do not share our interests, nor the concern about factors that are peculiar to our activities - like lighting.

I too have "suffered" at the hands of someone on my street that burns their rubbish at night, and am currently awaiting my local authority's response to my request for assistance with this.., I am also actively planning to move 

Best wishes in your determiniations..,

Regards,

skybsd

Nicholas Becker

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Re: Neighbor purposely removed light shield
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2018, 06:42:04 PM »
This is NOT England, it's the USA.  Things don't work nearly the same way.  Individual rights usually get more consideration.

Duane Berhane

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Re: Neighbor purposely removed light shield
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2018, 12:44:45 PM »
Hello,     Understood - and acknowledged by myself, as well as other posters.Understanding, consideration and the value of pragmatism - we hope, is universal.Regards,skybsd

gausinoleac

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Re: Neighbor purposely removed light shield
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2018, 09:13:51 PM »
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Think about it. A CN moderator just said that we "must respect" all lifestyles, even if those lifestyles break the law and cause light pollution.


That is not what I said; I did not say "even if those lifestyles break the law  and cause light pollution".

What has to be done, is work accordingly with any ordinances in effect, &amp; IF those ordinances will be enforced.  What matters is we cannot force our  <strong class="bbc">hobby[/b]  on others; even though we, as Astronomers, want as little light as possible.  lighting that affects your health, such as shining into bedrooms is a completely different situation.

Ralph Gleason

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Re: Neighbor purposely removed light shield
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2018, 01:32:57 PM »
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<p class="citation">Quotelet's stay on the topic of LP, period.
It is on topic. You stated that we must respect the lifestyles of those who cause light pollution, which seems to be a very strange sentiment to express in the Light Pollution forum. I really <em class="bbc">don't care what reasons people feel they have for causing light pollution, it doesn't stop it being light pollution.A bright unshielded light on private land 2 metres from my bedroom window is no better or worse than an enormous searchlight aimed at my window from 2 kilometres away on private land. The result is the same - namely light pollution. I cannot and will not respect it and I seriously doubt if anybody here would respect it either, even if the culprits happen to be elderly and suffered from severe light deprivation in the past.The moment we start getting soft on light pollution and the polluters we may as well just give up entirely. [/quote]I said stay on topic, because "Burning tires" is not what the topic of the thread is,  which was what your post said.Let's play nice in here, &amp; hope that the OP can indeed get his situation settled for everyone's benefit.

Daniel Horton

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Re: Neighbor purposely removed light shield
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2018, 04:27:43 AM »
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What matters is we cannot force our  <strong class="bbc">hobby[/b]  on others; even though we, as Astronomers, want as little light as possible.  lighting that affects your health, such as shining into bedrooms is a completely different situation.

It is not a matter of "forc(ing)our hobby on others".
It is a matter of infringing on the rights of others. Whether someone is polluting the water, air , or natural night-time darkness of their neighbor, it it the same principle. One persons' rights stop where anothers' begins.
 That the OP has a translucent bathroom wall is not the  deciding issue as to whether the neighbors' floodlight is  an infringement.  No local lighting ordinances vary upon whether a neighbor leaves themselves more or less open to the effects of anothers' lights.
 Yes laws protecting ones' health are more important than those protecting ones' convenience. It is becoming more agreed on, however, that the lack of night-time darkness leads to  a number of ill health effects.  Hopefully the trend towards protecting night-time darkness will continue as an issue of personal rights and not just a health issue.

Ricky Mondal

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Re: Neighbor purposely removed light shield
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2018, 09:57:20 AM »
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Hopefully the trend towards protecting night-time darkness will continue as an issue of personal rights and not just a health issue.


Protecting the night darkness is getting more &amp; more attention; as many States here, are coming thru with legislation to protect the night skies.  I'm sure it's the same in a lot of other Countries.  Even with legislation,  it will be a very slow uphill battle.  Now the problem in areas with legislation against LP are facing, is who is responsible for enforcing it.