Author Topic: New neighbor getting action on LED lights at car dealership.  (Read 339 times)

bayretide

  • Active Astronomer
  • ***
  • Posts: 116
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Reputation: +0/-0
    • View Profile
New neighbor getting action on LED lights at car dealership.
« on: December 24, 2017, 04:39:27 AM »
So the reader's digest brief story is I have lived 15 decades, little apartment behind name brand car dealership, 3-years ago they switched into blazingly bright LED lights, the neighbors complained to deaf ears, input new neighbor, retired lawyer, presto we are getting a little action.

Granted I am much more into the mechanisms of telescope rebuilding & refurbishing than celebrating but had a range outside looking at Venus two months ago, invited my neighbor for a look, that is when he said the awful warmth of this dealership LED lights, he looked into it.

Lawyer neighbor politely asked the dealership to do something about the awful warmth, no avail, moved into town, pulled the lighting code, but here's the plot twist, town can't develop with the date of this revision which happened in the relative time frame of this LED light replacement so he has been battling red tape with town attorney hoping to have the precise date.

That's where we stood until, last Wednesday, much to my surprise, 3 of the 12 LED lights nearest to us have been shielded.  Nobody informed or discussed with us, we are a bit miffed at that but it's a start.

In still another plot twist, lo and behold, the lighting company was outside on Saturday night taking pictures, and my lawyer neighbor, only by chance, bumped into him.  The conversation, just install some of shields, we'll be good, but of course the lighting firm does not have shields for the worst offending LED lights, (yet?) .

Side note, here's a good chuckle for you, the town code enforcement can't examine the lights since he does not operate at night, lol.

Historically the dealership has never done anything out of the goodness of their own heart, something is definitely happening in the background involving town, dealership along with the lighting firm, not sure what, but finally things are beginning to appear.

It's a start, some good news, will keep everybody up to speed on any developments.



highdanmyne

  • Active Astronomer
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Reputation: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: New neighbor getting action on LED lights at car dealership.
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2017, 10:31:03 AM »
Maybe try inviting the supervisor--along with others--of the vehicle dealership over some night to take a peek at some objects in the sky--like a few of the brighter planets, etc that tend to impress non-astronomers the many-- he can get an concept of what you're looking at, how "his" bright lights may be affecting your perspectives, etc??

In least, I suppose at this point I would thank him for wanting to be a "good neighbor" by installing shields on the 3 closest lights to you-- in individual or a letter--and put in that you're hopeful that he'll install shields on the rest of the lights when shields for those become available (and possibly in that letter--or in person--is if you can invite him over for a night of viewing through your scope?) .

Anyhow, fantastic luck to youpersonally, as if you say, it's a beginning and is encouraging that some progress was made!

tialegofi

  • Active Astronomer
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Reputation: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: New neighbor getting action on LED lights at car dealership.
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2017, 10:19:27 PM »
Dangerkitty,P.S. Re the advice I gave above, re inviting the dealership mgr out for an evening's viewing w/ you, you might not want to invite your lawyer neighbor friend along that night! Might be best to leave lawyers out of the equation for that!Also, and more seriously, if you do get the dealership guy to come out, this might be a good opportunity to introduce him to the whole topic of light pollution in general, and how bad it's gotten over the yrs, how it's affected not only professional--and amateur astronomers--but the general public in that something like 50% of the world's population can no longer see the Milky Way in the night sky, etc. Maybe show him one of those night-time satellite images of the Earth--esp. the US--to reinforce the problem, esp. if you live in/near one of the larger US cities that's one of the many "bright spots" on those maps!? Anyhow, again, best of luck--and keep us posted on your progress!-jim-

Grant Buchanan

  • Active Astronomer
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Reputation: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: New neighbor getting action on LED lights at car dealership.
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2017, 05:22:33 PM »
Quote
......

Side note, here’s a good chuckle for you, the city code enforcement cannot look at the lights because he doesn’t work at night, lol.

......


Actually, that's not such a small issue. One of the earlier failures to get a NYS anti-LP Law was caused when local Governments complained that the law would require them to enforce it, but provided no funds to pay for that enforcement effort ( a general hot button issue in NY). Result: Gov vetoed the bill. It took another 5 years or so to get it passed. There is still no money for enforcement, and it only applies to State controlled/funded lighting.

ertafsurpnant

  • Active Astronomer
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Reputation: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: New neighbor getting action on LED lights at car dealership.
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2018, 02:09:18 AM »
Agree with earlyriser. What he is doing is a nuisance.

taccihalmo

  • Active Astronomer
  • ***
  • Posts: 114
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Reputation: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: New neighbor getting action on LED lights at car dealership.
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2018, 09:31:43 PM »
Yes, I agree what the car dealership guy is doing is a nuisance and would be nice if he stopped it after it being mentioned to him the first time, but since that hasn't happened, I'm not sure that being overly insistent, or continually telling him he's being a public nuisance, will help any, and may only harden his stand. Guess I just think it's worth the effort to try to reach out to him by inviting him out to an evening's viewing--under the glare of his lights--that might be a better approach at this stage of the game, and if he doesn't want to come out,then one can always go back to the "you're being a nuisance and you've got to stop" strategy. Just thinking that as with most people, he's probably never looked thru a telescope at anything before, and doesn' appreciate what one can see in an amateur scope and/or how light pollution can impact the seeing. Again, best of luck to you!

Chuck Johnston

  • Active Astronomer
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Reputation: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: New neighbor getting action on LED lights at car dealership.
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2018, 08:01:24 PM »
Quote
Quote

Maybe try inviting the manager--and others there--of the car dealership over some night to take a look at some objects in the sky--like some of the brighter planets, etc, that tend to impress non-astronomers the most--so he can get an idea of what you're looking at, how "his" bright lights may be affecting your views, etc??

At the very least, I guess at this point I'd thank him for wanting to be a "good neighbor" by installing shields on the 3 closest lights to you--either in person and/or a letter--and add that you are hopeful that he will install shields on the remaining lights when shields for those become available (and maybe in that letter--or in person--is when you could invite him over for an evening of viewing thru your scope?).

Anyhow, good luck to you, and like you say, it's a start and is encouraging that some progress has been made!

I see this suggestion a lot, but I'm guessing just as often as not, it simply reinforces the idea in the mind of the polluter that astronomy is is a pointless hobby which is unreasonably interfering with their right to light up whatever they want. I think it may be best to stick with the "You are creating a nuisance with your poorly designed lighting and need to stop" strategy. Of course, I could be wrong.
You probably aren't wrong. For most people, excess light is much easier to ignore or block than excess sound. So we have noise ordinances almost everywhere, but effective light pollution ordinances practically nowhere.

Anthony Eppinger

  • Active Astronomer
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Reputation: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: New neighbor getting action on LED lights at car dealership.
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2018, 12:51:33 AM »
One point; it may not be up to the dealership about the lighting, rather it could be a directive from the manufacturer (GMC, Ford, etc.). They do control quite a bit about the appearance, etc., of their dealerships. Just a thought.

canreosenbi

  • Jr. Astronomer
  • **
  • Posts: 94
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Reputation: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: New neighbor getting action on LED lights at car dealership.
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2018, 09:34:00 PM »
Quote
Quote

Maybe try inviting the manager--and others there--of the car dealership over some night to take a look at some objects in the sky--like some of the brighter planets, etc, that tend to impress non-astronomers the most--so he can get an idea of what you're looking at, how "his" bright lights may be affecting your views, etc??

At the very least, I guess at this point I'd thank him for wanting to be a "good neighbor" by installing shields on the 3 closest lights to you--either in person and/or a letter--and add that you are hopeful that he will install shields on the remaining lights when shields for those become available (and maybe in that letter--or in person--is when you could invite him over for an evening of viewing thru your scope?).

Anyhow, good luck to you, and like you say, it's a start and is encouraging that some progress has been made!

I see this suggestion a lot, but I'm guessing just as often as not, it simply reinforces the idea in the mind of the polluter that astronomy is is a pointless hobby which is unreasonably interfering with their right to light up whatever they want. I think it may be best to stick with the "You are creating a nuisance with your poorly designed lighting and need to stop" strategy. Of course, I could be wrong.
I'd think this suggestion is great for introducing an individual neighbor to your problem on a friendly basis. Not too effective though, for dealing with a business that has shown no effort to be cooperative in the past.
 Marty

Jamal Plump

  • Active Astronomer
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Reputation: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: New neighbor getting action on LED lights at car dealership.
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2018, 09:58:54 AM »
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions, always appreciated.

I did pick up a light meter, still figuring out the idiotic instructions but I took some fast readings. LED double light fixture 75, single LED light fixture 45, and for comparison, the street light on my corner was 11.

From my perspective, i really don't care how bright the dealership wants their parking lot, we shouldn't suffer the full direct blast of that LED light glare in my eyes in my apartment. All we are asking for is a shield, so we don't see what I call "the arc welders" anymore.

kocewaffre

  • Active Astronomer
  • ***
  • Posts: 121
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Reputation: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: New neighbor getting action on LED lights at car dealership.
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2018, 05:24:13 PM »
Quote
One point; it may not be up to the dealership about the lighting, rather it could be a directive from the manufacturer (GMC, Ford, etc.). They do control quite a bit about the appearance, etc., of their dealerships. Just a thought.

Which points out the fact that light pollution is often the result of decisions made by a small minority of people. Their decisions stand because most people don't care, or don't know that they should care.

On a more local scale, very few of my neighbors even leave their front porch lights on. But one neighbor has a completely un-shielded back porch light that outshines the streetlights.

Yes, the marvels of LED technology...

tiocartratca

  • Active Astronomer
  • ***
  • Posts: 139
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Reputation: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: New neighbor getting action on LED lights at car dealership.
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2018, 06:21:03 PM »
Quote
Quote

Quote

Maybe try inviting the manager--and others there--of the car dealership over some night to take a look at some objects in the sky--like some of the brighter planets, etc, that tend to impress non-astronomers the most--so he can get an idea of what you're looking at, how "his" bright lights may be affecting your views, etc??

At the very least, I guess at this point I'd thank him for wanting to be a "good neighbor" by installing shields on the 3 closest lights to you--either in person and/or a letter--and add that you are hopeful that he will install shields on the remaining lights when shields for those become available (and maybe in that letter--or in person--is when you could invite him over for an evening of viewing thru your scope?).

Anyhow, good luck to you, and like you say, it's a start and is encouraging that some progress has been made!

I see this suggestion a lot, but I'm guessing just as often as not, it simply reinforces the idea in the mind of the polluter that astronomy is is a pointless hobby which is unreasonably interfering with their right to light up whatever they want. I think it may be best to stick with the "You are creating a nuisance with your poorly designed lighting and need to stop" strategy. Of course, I could be wrong.
I'd think this suggestion is great for introducing an individual neighbor to your problem on a friendly basis. Not too effective though, for dealing with a business that has shown no effort to be cooperative in the past.
 Marty
Yes. There is a big difference between a natural person who may have empathy for his neighbor and a corporate entity which almost never does.

Duana Beckwith

  • Active Astronomer
  • ***
  • Posts: 122
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Reputation: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: New neighbor getting action on LED lights at car dealership.
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2018, 09:59:04 PM »
I feel your pain, I live 300 feet from the Walpole Mall and within 1/4 mile of a 24 hour Walmart, at least they while not having shields all have the light pointed down, except for the Panera Bread drive thru that is the closest to me, 300 feet. Also along route 1 there are 15 car dealerships within a mile and a half of me. On a GOOD night I can see down to magnitude 2.4! When I looked at Pegasus I could make out 1 star of the square and I need averted vision to see Polaris (it is towards the mall)
 That is why I became a Solar imager


snowcadere

  • Active Astronomer
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Reputation: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: New neighbor getting action on LED lights at car dealership.
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2018, 10:29:45 PM »
Consult your city code officials.

rossbalfigen

  • Active Astronomer
  • ***
  • Posts: 122
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Reputation: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: New neighbor getting action on LED lights at car dealership.
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2018, 01:04:33 PM »
Neighbor wrote to the city attorney again, noted the dates of previous personal contacts and previous emials sent requesting the date of the code revision, we're in waiting mode again. The revision date is the key to this lighting dispute, if the code got revised before the lighting company installed the LED lights for the dealership, we've got them lock, stock and barrel.

We ran into stalling, ignoring, minimalizing when the LED lights first got installed, we're not being put off anymore. It is also incredulous that the lighting company does not have shields available for the larger LED lights, indicates that nobody considered that actual, real people are affected by this. We're reasonable, totally understand their lighting situation, security and everything, it's just the direct line of sight of the LED bulbs, it's blazingly bright.

If it was a next door residential neighbor, absolutely we would invite them over for a star night observing session, but we feel bringing in the word astronomy would be the kiss of death in the lighting dispute.

Thanks for all the input, all of you are providing moral support.