Author Topic: Ohio University Adding More Light "Because it makes people feel safer".  (Read 443 times)

Joel Cahill

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Re: Ohio University Adding More Light "Because it makes people feel safer".
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2018, 08:00:13 AM »
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I want LP to be effectively worked upon, I really do. For those that have the energy to fight the fight, good on them. I just no longer have the energy or motivation to do so. That doesn't mean that I won't support those fighting the good fight.

I totally get that. Each of us gets to a point on some issue or another where we don't have the energy any more for the fight, no matter how vigorously we root for those still battling in the ring.
exactly.

statfuncteeci

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Re: Ohio University Adding More Light "Because it makes people feel safer".
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2018, 09:04:34 AM »
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I want LP to be effectively worked upon, I really do. For those that have the energy to fight the fight, good on them. I just no longer have the energy or motivation to do so. That doesn't mean that I won't support those fighting the good fight.

I totally get that. Each of us gets to a point on some issue or another where we don't have the energy any more for the fight, no matter how vigorously we root for those still battling in the ring.
exactly.
I've given up with my efforts with Shakopee, MN.  "Rooting" is not enough.

As I earlier reported in the LP forum, the local newspaper was going to interview me. That didn't happen. (I did ask forum members to just post a quick note to the local newspaper facebook to keep up the momentum. Unfortunately not one person did....not a one). Other more interesting subjects are now getting media attention.

The local power utility engineer promised to shield the new non compliant 4000K streetlight in my yard, but they did not do it. The city is now replacing all street lights with hideous non-IDA lights and fixtures.

I'm not whining that I'm a 'victim' here... I just came to the conclusion that we've lost the skies forever.

The powers that be don't listen to one person no matter how truthful the subject matter is.

I tried, but I'm done. We lost.

--Jay

swadadanun

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Re: Ohio University Adding More Light "Because it makes people feel safer".
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2018, 10:58:25 AM »
1) The only thing that allows evil to triumph is that good men do nothing.
2) Every revolution has begun with a small number of people.
3) As hopeless as something may seem, remember: most things are not as they seem.
4) Never surrender.
5) Always carry wire snips. ()

Hope that helps and offers some encouragement, Jay. Remember, the battle is not over until you surrender or run from the field.

Best wishes on your continued fight,

Dave Fair

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Re: Ohio University Adding More Light "Because it makes people feel safer".
« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2018, 05:55:16 PM »
Actually, I think light pollution is one of the few issues that has not been made partisan (yet). This gives me hope that some kind of action could be taken.

If you define success as the total elimination of light pollution, of course that is not going to happen. But that doesn't mean nothing can be done. Just limiting the spread of light pollution, establishing more dark sky parks, etc. is entirely possible.

Anyway, to those who have burned themselves out on this issue... Just because you can't do everything, doesn't mean you should do nothing. Me, I just support the IDA and talk about the bad effects of light pollution when the opportunity arises. I don't expect to be the Martin Luther King of light pollution, but just another snowflake in an avalanche.

artufanchess

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Re: Ohio University Adding More Light "Because it makes people feel safer".
« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2018, 06:44:53 PM »
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1) The only thing that allows evil to triumph is that good men do nothing.
2) Every revolution has begun with a small number of people.
3) As hopeless as something may seem, remember: most things are not as they seem.
4) Never surrender.
5) Always carry wire snips. ()

Hope that helps and offers some encouragement, Jay. Remember, the battle is not over until you surrender or run from the field.

Best wishes on your continued fight,

I've surrendered and run from the field.

gimartutin

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Re: Ohio University Adding More Light "Because it makes people feel safer".
« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2018, 08:19:50 PM »
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You have totally misunderstood me. My remark was posted in all seriousness. I hate LP as much as anyone else here, and applaud your efforts to remove this health, safety, and science-inhibiting hazard from our society. Excessive light in the wrong place can kill you, if you read Bogg's post above mine. Perhaps next time you ought to avoid taking offense at someone on your side of the fence. Yes, I was intentionally singled out, since I had a post written against me for no reason at all, simply to get this thread off track.

My comments were actually intended for dpastern. Your post slipped in between while I was typing.

acbanlota

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Re: Ohio University Adding More Light "Because it makes people feel safer".
« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2018, 12:23:45 AM »
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Just because society doesn't care about something now does not mean they never will. There are lots of things that are considered important today that were not on anyone's radar 20 years ago. If you think trying to convince people to care about light pollution is a waste of time, I guess that's your prerogative. But maybe you should at least think about what you are trying to accomplish by discouraging the rest of us from doing something about it.

I don't mean to single you out - I see lots of negative comments from different people on this board about how efforts to limit light pollution are a waste of time. You are not even close to being one of the worst ones. But I think maybe taking time to tell those of us who are making the effort we are wasting our time is an even bigger waste of time.

Not sure if this was directed at me or not. Your ordinary average person doesn't care about the night sky. Ask anyone who's done outreach - kids run rampant, damage your gear, parents don't care about their kids bad behaviour, etc. You have to start young, but parental influence is a huge issue. If the parents aren't pro Astronomy, that child's interest will never grow. Since this sort of situation is endemic in modern society, I hold little hope for LP being solved. I see the number of kids going into the sciences dwindling. Some interesting reading:

http://www.smh.com.a...006-10qvq2.html

http://www.smh.com.a...805-gisnr5.html

By all means push for LP solutions. I personally don't have the mental or physical energy to do so anymore. I've had enough fights in my life that I couldn't win, to recognise that LP is another fight that's impossible to win.

Dave
Fair enough. I get exhausted myself sometimes. I just get tired of hearing that I'm wasting my time.

cesconali

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Re: Ohio University Adding More Light "Because it makes people feel safer".
« Reply #37 on: February 03, 2018, 07:18:10 AM »
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<snip>

<p class="citation">earlyriser, on 11 Dec 2017 - 8:43 PM, said:<a href="https://www.cloudynights.com/index.php?app=forums&amp;module=forums&amp;section=findpost&amp;pid=8266297" rel="citation">[/url]<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote built" data-author="earlyriser" data-cid="8266297" data-time="1513017821">

Just because society doesn't care about something now does not mean they never will. There are lots of things that are considered important today that were not on anyone's radar 20 years ago. If you think trying to convince people to care about light pollution is a waste of time, I guess that's your prerogative. But maybe you should at least think about what you are trying to accomplish by discouraging the rest of us from doing something about it.

I don't mean to single you out - I see lots of negative comments from different people on this board about how efforts to limit light pollution are a waste of time. You are not even close to being one of the worst ones. But I think maybe taking time to tell those of us who are making the effort we are wasting our time is an even bigger waste of time.

Not sure if this was directed at me or not. Your ordinary average person doesn't care about the night sky. Ask anyone who's done outreach - kids run rampant, damage your gear, parents don't care about their kids bad behaviour, etc. You have to start young, but parental influence is a huge issue. If the parents aren't pro Astronomy, that child's interest will never grow. Since this sort of situation is endemic in modern society, I hold little hope for LP being solved. I see the number of kids going into the sciences dwindling. Some interesting reading:

http://www.smh.com.a...006-10qvq2.html

http://www.smh.com.a...805-gisnr5.html

By all means push for LP solutions. I personally don't have the mental or physical energy to do so anymore. I've had enough fights in my life that I couldn't win, to recognise that LP is another fight that's impossible to win.

Dave
Fair enough. I get exhausted myself sometimes. I just get tired of hearing that I'm wasting my time.
let's look at this logically.

a) less kids are getting into sciences

b) less parents care about sciences

c) a) and b) combined will have a snow ball effect in the long run, and this issue will get worse with each generation.

d) amateur astronomers are only a tiny % of our population

e) amateur astronomers are mostly older persons (for the reasons outlined in a) through to c)

f) amateur astronomers are getting older

g) older amateur astronomers who pass away aren't getting replaced by younger astronomers 1 for 1...

h) g) means our numbers are declining at a greater rate than replenishment

the combination of all of the above points means we are continuing to dwindle as a hobby base in terms of numbers, and it's numbers that are important. Tell me, if 100 people protest and 5000000 people protest, who will the government listen to more? It won't matter how vocal you are, or how well made your arguments are.

The current US administration has made it clear that it has zero respect for nature and our planet, both of which are more important to the average person than looking at the night skies. You will get little sympathy, empathy, or support from non Astronomers. So, how do we get more support? It is clear that we must engage the wider community if we are to win the LP battle. But how?

Do not forget that human populations are growing, and that urban sprawl in every major country is also expanding at an ever growing rate of knots. LP is increasing as the urban sprawl increases, see this recent CNN article:

http://edition.cnn.c...tudy/index.html

The best tactic I can see is for each amateur to write letters to their local and federal representatives on a weekly basis and keep this up 20 or 30 years. Non stop. Be absolutely annoying as hell. But, that gets very tiring and demoralising after a while...

I'm not just being very negative about all of this, I've looked at the situation and analysed it very closely.

Jesse Kaine

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Re: Ohio University Adding More Light "Because it makes people feel safer".
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2018, 06:24:43 PM »
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The current US administration has made it clear that it has zero respect for nature and our planet, both of which are more important to the average person than looking at the night skies. You will get little sympathy, empathy, or support from non Astronomers. So, how do we get more support? It is clear that we must engage the wider community if we are to win the LP battle. But how?
Pretty simple actually. While most people have no respect for nature or science, just about everyone respects and/or worships money. And more efficient, less wasteful lighting saves money.

Eric Hayes

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Re: Ohio University Adding More Light "Because it makes people feel safer".
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2018, 10:21:26 PM »
With the money, they could hire armed escorts (campus police) and actually make people safer...

bunkreplterpka

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Re: Ohio University Adding More Light "Because it makes people feel safer".
« Reply #40 on: February 09, 2018, 02:23:29 AM »
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The current US administration has made it clear that it has zero respect for nature and our planet, both of which are more important to the average person than looking at the night skies. You will get little sympathy, empathy, or support from non Astronomers. So, how do we get more support? It is clear that we must engage the wider community if we are to win the LP battle. But how?
Pretty simple actually. While most people have no respect for nature or science, just about everyone respects and/or worships money. And more efficient, less wasteful lighting saves money.
and that means people just add more lighting (since it's so cheap...)

Michael Greene

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Re: Ohio University Adding More Light "Because it makes people feel safer".
« Reply #41 on: February 09, 2018, 05:58:20 AM »
I often work with younger people that have brand new shiny science degrees and I'm amazed that many if not most know next to zip about the night sky. Just the way it is I guess but not surprised to hear about a complete lack of concern about LP from an educational institution. Double thumbs up to you young people here that are into the hobby and are concerned about LP. You're the future and have a big task ahead to promote awareness. Keep swinging the hammer - Illegitimi non carborundum.