Author Topic: Post Your Pain Here  (Read 443 times)

Cesar Lawhorn

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Re: Post Your Pain Here
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2018, 06:03:05 PM »
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I wonder if a calm and reasonable discussion would be better received than immediately going full-bore "hostile lawyer" on him....

He probably has no idea. Local law enforcement probably told him that more lighting would deter crime..

+1 Has the OP contacted the service station owner to discuss this?
Nope.

miswalltile

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Re: Post Your Pain Here
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2018, 07:03:20 PM »
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I wonder if a calm and reasonable discussion would be better received than immediately going full-bore "hostile lawyer" on him....

He probably has no idea. Local law enforcement probably told him that more lighting would deter crime..

Probably not, but no way he spends a dime more or eats the cost of installing these things absent a loss in business or a fine from the city. Even assuming a reasoned discussion would be possible, it would tip him off. I'd rather the building inspector show up without warning. No reason to give him time to plan for it.

Woody Boelkens

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Re: Post Your Pain Here
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2018, 05:30:37 AM »
Okay, so the community council says Pete is a good guy, and I should talk to him about his lights. So, I guess I'll give that a shot. Not sure how we can work with those lights. He couldn't have made a worse choice. Maybe shields and some re-aiming. If he's willing to work with me, I'll withdraw the complaint.

John Trujillo

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Re: Post Your Pain Here
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2018, 12:07:31 AM »
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Post my pain, EYEPIECE UNDERCUTS!

But they're for your safety.

Robert Cavalli

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Re: Post Your Pain Here
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2018, 01:36:33 PM »
My neighbor collects search lights!!!!

brodsandbacksosp

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Re: Post Your Pain Here
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2018, 02:34:06 PM »
None of my eyepieces have undercuts, what about them causes annoyance?

By me there are too many streetlights, and the neighs to the right of me both in front and back heavily illuminated their properties. he one to the back was in customs and part of shady stuff, so he is constantly paranoid. I have a tree that blocks the front light but I not sure what to do about the back one.

Junee Hunt

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Re: Post Your Pain Here
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2018, 01:03:33 AM »
I talked to the guy on Wednesday. Not unexpectedly, his concern is crime. Evidently, I wasn't the first person to complain about the lights. He's also had some complaints from the neighbors, with whom he appears to have a somewhat contentious relationship already.

My thought going in was if that I could get him to agree to let me put up some shields on one of the lights so he could see how they worked, I'd drop the complaint for now. However, I don't think he really understood my concerns was sky glow, not light trespass, and he seems pretty set on keeping the light levels the way they are for security.

I feel for the guy - nobody wants to feel like they are unsafe. But, I measured the light levels yesterday with a lux meter. I didn't try to figure an average because I didn't want to be wandering around the lot for an hour taking readings, but the peak levels are 200-300 lux (19-28 footcandles) depending on how many fixtures were mounted on the pole I was under. Walking along the sidewalks adjacent to the lot, I measured peak levels ranging from 100 to 160 lux. Across the street, the levels were 15-20 lux (1.4-1.9 footcandles).

The IES recommends a range of .75 to 3 footcandles for urban parking lots, and a range of 1.5. to 6 footcandles for exterior building lighting if security is an issue (which it appears to be). Even using the 6 footcandle number, the guy is at 4 to5 times the recommended levels. His lights would be within the recommended levels for cars parked across the street. Given the intensity and lack of shielding, I think I need to let the complaint ride and see if the building inspector can motivate the guy to change the lights. Maybe the owner will let me help him if he gets a citation.

Zack Tucker

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Re: Post Your Pain Here
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2018, 04:57:01 AM »
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After seeing these, I guess I have nothing to complain about - image looking south from my camp on Indian Lake, NY.
"Tis true, but the Adirondacks are cloud heaven most times (and dayam cold in the winter!!!)

Michael Shen

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Re: Post Your Pain Here
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2018, 01:08:14 AM »
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After seeing these, I guess I have nothing to complain about - image looking south from my camp on Indian Lake, NY.
"Tis true, but the Adirondacks are cloud heaven most times (and dayam cold in the winter!!!)
"Dark sky" = "few people" (except for North Koreaand Cuba). There's generally a reason why there are few people in any given location. Being retired, I have plenty of time to wait for those clear nights.

BTW, right now "Light Pollution" is not my observing problem - at either of my NY homes.
No, it's belt buckle deep snow and wind chills below zero..... that's the reason I was not out observing the moon last night! I figured that in snow that deep I probably couldn't out-run the coyotes.

Anthony Cejudo

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Re: Post Your Pain Here
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2018, 06:44:08 PM »
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After seeing these, I guess I have nothing to complain about - image looking south from my camp on Indian Lake, NY.
"Tis true, but the Adirondacks are cloud heaven most times (and dayam cold in the winter!!!)
"Dark sky" = "few people" (except for North Koreaand Cuba). There's generally a reason why there are few people in any given location. Being retired, I have plenty of time to wait for those clear nights.

BTW, right now "Light Pollution" is not my observing problem - at either of my NY homes.
No, it's belt buckle deep snow and wind chills below zero..... that's the reason I was not out observing the moon last night! I figured that in snow that deep I probably couldn't out-run the coyotes.
I hope it stays that way. I typically go up to Lake George to visit friends and ski each Christmas. When I was there this past December, I noticed a fair amount of unshielded (guessing 5000K) LED street lights had been installed along the main drag. These were on lamp posts installed on the sidewalks in addition to the high pressure sodium street lights hanging from the telephone poles. I guess someone thought they were pretty.

kondcongrese

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Re: Post Your Pain Here
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2018, 12:01:51 AM »
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None of my eyepieces have undercuts, what about them causes annoyance?
One of my focusers requires the barrel diameter to be 1.25 inches near the shoulder of the eyepiece. Undercuts decrease the barrel diameter at that critical spot.

Others hate undercuts for other good reasons.

Back to LP....

firorectve

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Re: Post Your Pain Here
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2018, 05:40:33 AM »
Was just outside getting ready for some Jupiter imaging, and now I'm debating whether or not it's worth even buying a big dob in the future :/

I could just barely make out freaking Alcor. It's not even magnitude 4. When I first moved to my house, my night sky was pretty good. Not great, but it was rural and fairly dark. I've probably lost a full magnitude or more in just 3 years. I gets slightly better after midnight when a lot of business shut down extraneous lights, but there are still so many businesses with those ridiculous LED flood lights lighting up their whole parking lot and shining almost horizontally.

There are just 2 major clusters of light pollution which would be very easy and cheap for my town to fix, but it would require lighting regulation of private business, which is a can of worms that is unlikely to gain any traction. The town really should have a lighting code in general (the next town over does, but it's a purely residential town) so that the problem doesn't get worse. One ray of hope is that the major source of pollution closest to me (just a half mile away) is the local public high school. There are numerous parking lot lights, athletic field lights, and street lights, all of which are unshielded. Better management of those lights would improve the sky dramatically, and because it's public property, I can probably make a compelling petition to improve lighting management there.

Darius Swick

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Re: Post Your Pain Here
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2018, 06:43:45 AM »
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I swear, these new LED lights are popping up like mushrooms. One my way home today, I discovered that a neighborhood gas station had replaced their previously overly intense lights (which were at least cutoff lights) with these monstrosities. They are aimed at 45 degrees to the horizontal. The attached photo was taken with an EV value of 7, which will give photographers an idea of how bright these are. A normal exposure for subjects under bright street lights would be an EV of 4. Bright interior shots at home are normally exposed at about an EV of 6. Each step up in EV equates to double the brightness. You'll notice that even at EV 7, the areas illuminated by the lights are grossly over exposed. Complaints to the city to follow tomorrow when zoning enforcement is open.

Status Update: An order was issued by the city to bring this lighting into compliance with Section 1421-39 of the municipal code on May 3. On May 10, the owner responded that the lights would be directed down and shielded within 30 days. I will let you know if and when this happens.

Attached Thumbnails


Jeremiah Greer

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Re: Post Your Pain Here
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2018, 12:02:41 PM »
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I swear, these new LED lights are popping up like mushrooms. One my way home today, I discovered that a neighborhood gas station had replaced their previously overly intense lights (which were at least cutoff lights) with these monstrosities. They are aimed at 45 degrees to the horizontal. The attached photo was taken with an EV value of 7, which will give photographers an idea of how bright these are. A normal exposure for subjects under bright street lights would be an EV of 4. Bright interior shots at home are normally exposed at about an EV of 6. Each step up in EV equates to double the brightness. You'll notice that even at EV 7, the areas illuminated by the lights are grossly over exposed. Complaints to the city to follow tomorrow when zoning enforcement is open.

Status Update: An order was issued by the city to bring this lighting into compliance with Section 1421-39 of the municipal code on May 3. On May 10, the owner responded that the lights would be directed down and shielded within 30 days. I will let you know if and when this happens.
It should be interesting to see what "compliance" looks like.

In the meantime, I have a solution that the owners can use to put themselves into compliance within 30 seconds, rather than 30 days. It's called the light switch.

chlorleifilwhirl

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Re: Post Your Pain Here
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2018, 12:17:57 PM »
If i am not scared to climb up to the rooftop of my house then i will take images of all directions and post here to show how nice lit is my city, or how bad light pollution is, i am sure there are worse out there maybe, but in all cases it isn't any good here, but who knows, maybe once i start to photograph the sky with my mount and scope i may see something different.