Author Topic: Questions about light pollution  (Read 314 times)

Ryan Hernandez

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Questions about light pollution
« on: December 24, 2017, 02:56:47 PM »
Hello Everybody,

I am a brand new member of forum.I'm not a native speaker so I will attempt to write in easy English.  My location of observation is suburbs of Istanbul  located in red zone for the time being.  I am now quite young and want to move to a darker spot in the future.   I've finished reading this subforum about LP and found it fairly depressing.  I want to ask a few questions to clean this up for me. - Can I find a house that will remain in precisely the same bortle skies scale course for at least 20 decades.

- Will a few floodlights nearby contribute a significant sum to overall sky glow even if you don't see these directly?  While I've moved to a rural area if I worry about lights nearby when I dont see these directly. ( No light trespass)?

- Why is this great thing about LP that bad as it's said in forums?  This subforum made me extremely cynical about future of my hobby.
Timur



climopepvi

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Re: Questions about light pollution
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2017, 02:03:42 PM »
Quote
Hello everyone,

I am a new member of forum.I am not a native speaker so I will try to write in simple English. My location of observation is suburbs of Istanbul that is located in red zone for now. I am now fairly young and want to move to a darker place in the future. So I have read this subforum about LP and found it pretty depressing. I want to ask a couple questions to clear this up for me.- Can I find a house that will stay in the same bortle sky scale class for at least 20 years.

- Will a couple floodlights nearby contribute a significant amount to overall sky glow even if you don't see them directly? When I have moved to a rural area should I be worried about lights nearby even if I dont see them directly.( No light trespass)?

- Is this whole thing about LP that bad as it is stated in forums? This subforum made me extremely pessimistic about future of my hobby.
You won't find a home at a very dark site near Istanbul, if that helps answer your first question.

If you can find a way to screen out the floodlights that would help, but the sky will still be a bit brighter anyway.

Even with light pollution, there is still much to see.

cieledrore

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Re: Questions about light pollution
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2018, 10:44:58 AM »
Quote
Quote

Hello everyone,

I am a new member of forum.I am not a native speaker so I will try to write in simple English. My location of observation is suburbs of Istanbul that is located in red zone for now. I am now fairly young and want to move to a darker place in the future. So I have read this subforum about LP and found it pretty depressing. I want to ask a couple questions to clear this up for me.- Can I find a house that will stay in the same bortle sky scale class for at least 20 years.

- Will a couple floodlights nearby contribute a significant amount to overall sky glow even if you don't see them directly? When I have moved to a rural area should I be worried about lights nearby even if I dont see them directly.( No light trespass)?

- Is this whole thing about LP that bad as it is stated in forums? This subforum made me extremely pessimistic about future of my hobby.
You won't find a home at a very dark site near Istanbul, if that helps answer your first question.

If you can find a way to screen out the floodlights that would help, but the sky will still be a bit brighter anyway.

Even with light pollution, there is still much to see.
Thank you for answer.

It doesn't have to be near İstanbul. In fact, I am planning to move to US. I would like to move to an area that is at least in green zone, and will reamin so for a long time. Is this possible? It would be annoying to end up with being in yellow or red zone after several years.

bamrocorna

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Re: Questions about light pollution
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2018, 12:19:17 PM »
It depends upon what you do for a living and whether or not you need to go into a city for work. There are pockets of fairly dark skies on the east coast. In the west there are more. If you have to travel for work consider how long it would take to get to an airport and then an international airport, if you are going to be going back and forth to Turkey.

Istanbul is a wonderful city, but not for stargazing. I've tried with binoculars and it was not good. But boat watching was terrific.

soamezquipack

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Re: Questions about light pollution
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2018, 06:16:58 PM »
It is absolutely possible to find a house in a very dark place, even one that will likely stay so for many more decades or even centuries, but the problem is, that such houses are located in fairly remote locations, far from modern cities and that can give problems finding a job and earning money. This is even more so a problem in the best observing locations, namely high altitude deserts, where you can't even live as a farmer. But if you are satisfied with reasonably dark skies or dark skies that are only occasionally clear, then there's lots and lots of options everywhere around the world, as long as you're willing to live far from big cities and towns.Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark

Jeff Smith

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Re: Questions about light pollution
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2018, 02:52:02 AM »
The below link is pretty technical in nature, but it should give you a good idea of how far light pollution travels from the source:

http://www.sciencedi...022407313004792

If you want long term dark skies, and don't care about anything else, I'd move somewhere that is experiencing little or no growth, like a rural area of West Virginia or eastern Kentucky. The Dakota's might be good, depending on what the oil and gas industry is up to.

Travis Kuhlman

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Re: Questions about light pollution
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2018, 11:51:27 AM »
1. Not likely. And you'd basically be looking for a house where nobody wants to live, which has its own problems.

2. Lights nearby are less of a problem if you don't see them directly. But some of their light will still be scattered by the atmosphere, particularly by dust.

3. LP is a problem, but doesn't have to ruin astronomy for you. My personal choice is to do photography, which is less affected. Many create a portable setup, and take it to darker skies.

Vincent Reside

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Re: Questions about light pollution
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2018, 11:28:52 AM »
to the Cloudy Nights forum.Light pollution may not be so good for this hobby, but clouds are even a bigger problem, just ask anyone.

vesceoparrest

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Re: Questions about light pollution
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2018, 10:24:33 PM »
The International Dark-Sky Association has a good website on certified communities dedicated to preserving the night sky. I'm fortunate tolive in Flagstaff, Arizona,which was the first IDA certified community. Howeverbut there are many more throughout the US (and the world). There are also many dark sky parks and reserves that you can drive to and camp.

It is an ongoing challenge to reduce LP and new LED streetlamps, although extremely energy efficient, are making matters worse.

Lou K.http://www.darksky.o...sp/communities/

Jeremy Fokused

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Re: Questions about light pollution
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2018, 01:27:02 AM »
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to the Cloudy Nights forum.Light pollution may not be so good for this hobby, but clouds are even a bigger problem, just ask anyone.

The clouds go away, from time to time.

slotiniphin

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Re: Questions about light pollution
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2018, 12:49:54 AM »
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1. Not likely. And you'd basically be looking for a house where nobody wants to live, which has its own problems.

I would suggest living somewhere dark skies are not a long drive away. The actual city or town you live in won't be great, but if you don't have the urban sprawl / megalopolis situation of the northeast US it would make life way easier.

nostcharmacon

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Re: Questions about light pollution
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2018, 08:55:00 AM »
I actually don't think that usage of LED's will dramatically worsen LP. Yes, they can scatter more in atmosphere but they are much more directional than LPS or HPS. You can look at an example in Europe. Milan replaced 100.000 lamps to LED in 2015 and if we look at LP maps there was no significant increase in LP from 2013 to 2017. Also there was a study I read in forum couple days ago from US Electricy Dep. stated that LEDs are not too bad.

By the way thanks for the answers. I will try to reply to them ASAP:

Jeff Swan

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Re: Questions about light pollution
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2018, 01:39:11 PM »
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I actually don't think that usage of LED's will dramatically worsen LP.
Wrong. I used to live in a small village, where the municipality installed four on the local town square. Those four, and they weren't even particularly powerful ones, were worse than all the sodium lamps in the village combined. And I didn't even have direct line of sight to them. The glare was extremely much worse, than from the sodium lamps, and both LEDs and sodium lamps were full-cutoff designs. To say I was disappointed in this is an understatement.

Several Danish amateurs have had their backyard observatories almost completely ruined by LEDs causing a massive increase in diffuse light. One just gave his observatory up completely, tore it down, and is now only imaging with a mobile rig.Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark

Ronald Saldana

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Re: Questions about light pollution
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2018, 02:52:30 AM »
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I actually don't think that usage of LED's will dramatically worsen LP. Yes, they can scatter more in atmosphere but they are much more directional than LPS or HPS. You can look at an example in Europe. Milan replaced 100.000 lamps to LED in 2015 and if we look at LP maps there was no significant increase in LP from 2013 to 2017. Also there was a study I read in forum couple days ago from US Electricy Dep. stated that LEDs are not too bad.

By the way thanks for the answers. I will try to reply to them ASAP:

I've not seen anything particularly directional about LEDs, so I would leave that term out of any discussion of them.

What we actually get once LEDs really take hold could be quite horrifying.

Tyler Cox

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Re: Questions about light pollution
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2018, 04:32:47 AM »
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I actually don't think that usage of LED's will dramatically worsen LP. Yes, they can scatter more in atmosphere but they are much more directional than LPS or HPS. You can look at an example in Europe. Milan replaced 100.000 lamps to LED in 2015 and if we look at LP maps there was no significant increase in LP from 2013 to 2017. Also there was a study I read in forum couple days ago from US Electricy Dep. stated that LEDs are not too bad.

By the way thanks for the answers. I will try to reply to them ASAP:

LEDs have the potential to reduce light pollution if the light fixtures using them are well engineered and installed properly. Unfortunately, that is not happening where I live. Quite the opposite, most of the new fixtures being installed in my neighborhood have been high-intensity 5000K glare bombs. Unless local governments start passing lighting codes that prohibit these types of installations, the night sky will be completely lost.