Author Topic: Satellites potentially ruining astrophotography?  (Read 112 times)

aftilicomp

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Satellites potentially ruining astrophotography?
« on: December 29, 2017, 02:25:48 PM »
Before I logged onto this website today, I check yahoo briefly to get an update on world news. I saw this article. It basically talks about Russia planning to launch a satellite that will be magnitude -3.0 or something like that, and it's going to be orbiting around the earth. Its supposed to be very bright. I can't help but wonder how that is going to destroy DSO long-exposure photography. How can we possibly get around this problem?

https://www.yahoo.co...-to-be-one.html

I've had a fear that in the future nobody will care about earth-based astronomy anymore, so light pollution and satellites will fill the skies. I would imagine that world leaders and those in charge will just say, "Leave the science and imaging to the satellites in Earth's orbit, they get better views anyway" and that will be that. I'm sure many of you might have the same predictions or thoughts on this.



John Wilson

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Re: Satellites potentially ruining astrophotography?
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2017, 03:43:23 PM »
That's what flats are for...sigh. I agree this is a stupid idea. Just because you can should you? No consideration for others here. Seems to be human nature. Just doing it for bragging rights.

Derek Vail

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Re: Satellites potentially ruining astrophotography?
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2017, 05:07:17 PM »
It will be just like what was felt when Sputnik was launched in 1957.... Here's another story about it: http://space.skyrock..._sdat/mayak.htm

Milan Gainer

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Re: Satellites potentially ruining astrophotography?
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2018, 09:20:14 PM »
Quote
That's what flats are for...sigh. I agree this is a stupid idea. Just because you can should you? No consideration for others here. Seems to be human nature. Just doing it for bragging rights.

Or short exposures...

cokoksmarous

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Re: Satellites potentially ruining astrophotography?
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2018, 01:38:11 PM »
Absolutely no issue with astro photography. There is no end to the this I just have to be against something society.
Grey

Antonio Zuniga

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Re: Satellites potentially ruining astrophotography?
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2018, 02:01:40 AM »
Quote
Quote

That's what flats are for...sigh. I agree this is a stupid idea. Just because you can should you? No consideration for others here. Seems to be human nature. Just doing it for bragging rights.

Or short exposures...
Not if you want good data and detailed images using a DSLR. 300 seconds at least for me. Just the way it is...double sigh.

cardcudeflee

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Re: Satellites potentially ruining astrophotography?
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2018, 07:14:26 AM »
Mayak is a Russian cubesat
https://www.youtube....h?v=EL8e2ujXe8g

David Varnavas

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Re: Satellites potentially ruining astrophotography?
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2018, 10:20:56 AM »
Quote
Quote
That's what flats are for...sigh. I agree this is a stupid idea. Just because you can should you? No consideration for others here. Seems to be human nature. Just doing it for bragging rights.

Quote

That's what flats are for...sigh. I agree this is a stupid idea. Just because you can should you? No consideration for others here. Seems to be human nature. Just doing it for bragging rights.

Or short exposures...
Well, I am very new to this hobby, so it is easy for me to forget about things like flats and the like. I have heard of those terms, but haven't read enough yet on them. Regarding short exposures, I thought that even if you get a lot of short exposures, they still will not provide the same data as one good, long exposure, right? Unless my understanding of that area is complete wrong.

Marcus Kucrud

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Re: Satellites potentially ruining astrophotography?
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2018, 01:11:43 PM »
Quote
Quote

Quote

That's what flats are for...sigh. I agree this is a stupid idea. Just because you can should you? No consideration for others here. Seems to be human nature. Just doing it for bragging rights.

Or short exposures...
Not if you want good data and detailed images using a DSLR. 300 seconds at least for me. Just the way it is...double sigh.
Fair...My point though is shorter exposures allow one to dump any really offensive frames without losing quite as much data. I don't mean 1 second vs 5 minute exposures.

Freddy Banks

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Re: Satellites potentially ruining astrophotography?
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2018, 04:39:33 PM »
It is going to be in a low orbit. It will only be seen for a short while just after sunset or just before sunrise. When if flies over later in the night it won't shine because it will be in Earth's shadow. So it can only be seen when the Sun is only a tad below the horizon which is not the best time for DSO photography. It will be great for outreach events because it will be something to see before the sky gets really dark.

Milan Gainer

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Re: Satellites potentially ruining astrophotography?
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2018, 05:33:56 PM »
Quote
Quote

That's what flats are for...sigh. I agree this is a stupid idea. Just because you can should you? No consideration for others here. Seems to be human nature. Just doing it for bragging rights.

<p class="citation">xiando, on 01 Jul 2017 - 7:03 PM, said:<a href="https://www.cloudynights.com/index.php?app=forums&amp;module=forums&amp;section=findpost&amp;pid=7969913" rel="citation">[/url]<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote built" data-author="xiando" data-cid="7969913" data-time="1498928593"><p class="citation">leveye, on 01 Jul 2017 - 6:55 PM, said:<a href="https://www.cloudynights.com/index.php?app=forums&amp;module=forums&amp;section=findpost&amp;pid=7969892" rel="citation">[/url]<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote built" data-author="leveye" data-cid="7969892" data-time="1498928104">

That's what flats are for...sigh. I agree this is a stupid idea. Just because you can should you? No consideration for others here. Seems to be human nature. Just doing it for bragging rights.

Or short exposures...[/quote]
Well, I am very new to this hobby, so it is easy for me to forget about things like flats and the like. I have heard of those terms, but haven't read enough yet on them. Regarding short exposures, I thought that even if you get a lot of short exposures, they still will not provide the same data as one good, long exposure, right? Unless my understanding of that area is complete wrong.[/quote]
6 of one ...

relying on only the longest possible exposures doesn't necessarily get you that much more. In the end, it's primarily total integration time (ie N samples X M exposure time ). One problem as leveye noted although didn't explain is that due to the size of DLSR images, it can be hard to stack large quantities of subs in a single stack due to one's computer capabilities (memory, hard dive, and the prgram used to process the stacks) . Admittedly that's an issue.

Obviously if your chosen pursuit is dark nebula and you're a seasoned vet, that's one thing.

One other thing about long exposures. Over reliance can result in clipped and bloated stars.

Since I've been guiding, I tried five minute and ten minute, as well as 1, 2, 3 and 4 minute... For my setup and for my local LP issues, 1 -2 minute seems about right for nebulae and moderate sized galaxies, although some I may shoot a longer exposures due to their small size and low surface brightness. I have no problem avoiding major drift during long exposures but they blow out all my stars horribly.

I fact, if I'm shooting an open cluster or a stellar grouping I shoot even lower, (I like 1-20sec for star shots that include the eye visible stars normally used for alignment (Sadr, Navi, Vega, etc.)

Robert Garcia

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Re: Satellites potentially ruining astrophotography?
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2018, 01:46:01 AM »
Quote
Quote

That's what flats are for...sigh. I agree this is a stupid idea. Just because you can should you? No consideration for others here. Seems to be human nature. Just doing it for bragging rights.

<p class="citation">xiando, on 01 Jul 2017 - 7:03 PM, said:<a href="https://www.cloudynights.com/index.php?app=forums&amp;module=forums&amp;section=findpost&amp;pid=7969913" rel="citation">[/url]<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote built" data-author="xiando" data-cid="7969913" data-time="1498928593"><p class="citation">leveye, on 01 Jul 2017 - 6:55 PM, said:<a href="https://www.cloudynights.com/index.php?app=forums&amp;module=forums&amp;section=findpost&amp;pid=7969892" rel="citation">[/url]<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote built" data-author="leveye" data-cid="7969892" data-time="1498928104">

That's what flats are for...sigh. I agree this is a stupid idea. Just because you can should you? No consideration for others here. Seems to be human nature. Just doing it for bragging rights.

Or short exposures...[/quote]
Well, I am very new to this hobby, so it is easy for me to forget about things like flats and the like. I have heard of those terms, but haven't read enough yet on them. Regarding short exposures, I thought that even if you get a lot of short exposures, they still will not provide the same data as one good, long exposure, right? Unless my understanding of that area is complete wrong.[/quote]
You absolutely do not want to omit bias, flats, and darks. Not so much because they will improve your images (although they will), but more because, without them, it hurts your ability to learn to process properly. Which is at least half the game.

That new satellite is not a problem. Satellites will cross your field all the time. Example below. That's not removed by flats, it's removed by stacking multiple subexposures. "Outller" data like the satellite is automatically removed by the stacking computations.

You do need to expose each subexposure "long enough" but you can go "too long". What those numbers are is a skill to be learned. 1-5 minutes is a good ballpark. The key thing is how many subexposures you take. One hour of total imaging time is a good minimum, 2 is better, 4 is good. That's where longer is better.

AP is fun, but it's extremely complicated. You'll never run out of new things to learn, part of the charm for many of us.

It takes time to learn, be patient. This book will be a great help. Among many, many things, it discusses bias, flats, and darks, why they're important, and how to use them.

https://www.amazon.c...n/dp/148180491XAttached Thumbnails




Darius Swick

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Re: Satellites potentially ruining astrophotography?
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2018, 08:13:30 AM »
As much as it can be annoying, to be honest, images like Bob's example...I kinda like..Knowing the likely why behind the streak, and since it missed the galaxy itself, they have a certain sci fi aspect... "hey,the Enterprise just passed by Ma!" (no I know full well that's not the case, but the emotive quality...)

I keep meaning to go back though my subs for some that I've stripped out of stacks and stretch them as art to themselves...Maybe if I'm ever lucky enough to retire.

galpaydabta

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Re: Satellites potentially ruining astrophotography?
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2018, 05:17:46 PM »
Won't using median stacking instead of average or other type of stacking totally eliminate the streak?

omunsopoo

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Re: Satellites potentially ruining astrophotography?
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2018, 09:29:17 PM »
Very nice M51 Whirlpool Galaxy, it is much bigger then what I get on my 127mm refractor (ES ED127 CF), Nikon D5200, 20 minute exposures(Vixen VMC110L with NexGuide CCD, on a side by side D bar with ADM Max-M guidescope aiming device), all on a CGE mount. You must have a C-11 or a C-14 to get pictures that big.. and you must have a great mount, to get single shots with tiny stars.. nice.

Bill