Author Topic: Second study I've seen. Reduced lighting does NOT increase crime  (Read 591 times)

tricapenup

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Ryan Fletcher

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Re: Second study I've seen. Reduced lighting does NOT increase crime
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2017, 04:35:06 PM »
Yes I saw that also, the AA (UK Automobile Association) say they were 'very surprised' at the finding :-) What is encouraging is that turning lights down/off will save money at a time when Council budgets are under enormous pressure. They don't care about amateur astronomers but because saving money is involved they just might take action.

ChrisH

calfkommomu

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Re: Second study I've seen. Reduced lighting does NOT increase crime
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2017, 05:34:10 PM »
They seemed surprised because it did not corolate with their findings of inquest findings. The inquests are trying to find a cause and it is very easy to blame lighting. There was an accident here many years ago where a transport truck was backing into a business and the finding was that the truck had not enough lighting and reflective material on it. So all trucks got better lighting and highly reflective strips down the side. I do say they are very visible, however at the same spot of the original accident after the new lighting another accident. The finding of the new inquest was the new truck lighting standard did not seem to have an effect. They would not say driver error or lighting glare had an effect. I have driven that stretch of highway, you really need to pay attention going through that town, even a large transport truck can be hard to see with the buildings and extra lights around. The glare from some of them is quite bad.

loasandkosem

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Re: Second study I've seen. Reduced lighting does NOT increase crime
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2018, 06:26:58 AM »
I've seen these kinds of studies before. To be brutally honest, I don't believe them.

Glen

Jeff Swan

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Re: Second study I've seen. Reduced lighting does NOT increase crime
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2018, 11:19:20 PM »
I think total darkness may lead to higher crime, but I also believe there is a point where additional light does no good either. The problem is that there has been no study that has determined what the perfect lighting level is so some believe more is always better.

Ronald Saldana

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Re: Second study I've seen. Reduced lighting does NOT increase crime
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2018, 03:50:29 AM »
Quote
I've seen these kinds of studies before. To be brutally honest, I don't believe them.

Glen

Me neither, I shut my flood lights off one night and someone stole my Gnome.

Sam

Scott Etrheim

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Re: Second study I've seen. Reduced lighting does NOT increase crime
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2018, 08:21:44 PM »
The fact of the matter is that even if a study were to prove absolutely that more municipal lighting increased crime dramatically little would come of it. The urban public in general is afraid of the dark and as a result of that fear will demand more lighting and the politicians will respond. No matter what the actual cause in a rise in crime in a given area the first shortcoming cited by the public will always be "insufficient lighting". I've seen this time and again and no study nor thought of economy will ultimately trump it as long as the populace can be taxed to pay. Detroit is a recent example of just how bad things must get to move in the other direction.

BrooksObs

Jason Pederes

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Re: Second study I've seen. Reduced lighting does NOT increase crime
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2018, 10:49:23 PM »
That's why I think for sure in urban areas it's better to focus on the types of lighting (full cutoff and lower color temperature), than to make a full on assault against all types of lighting.

Abdullahi Archer

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Re: Second study I've seen. Reduced lighting does NOT increase crime
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2018, 01:50:25 PM »
Quote
The glare from some of them is quite bad.

That the result of stupid lighting design. Illuminate what needs to be seen brightly enough that it can be seen. Don't shine light into the faces of the people trying to see it. My local library branch has a side door with a canopy over it. Above the canopy is a bright light that shines straight out from the building. A burglar would have all night to break in since the doorway is in shadow and the glare makes it impossible to see anything near the building.

adlamontma

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Re: Second study I've seen. Reduced lighting does NOT increase crime
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2018, 02:45:02 PM »
Quote
I've seen these kinds of studies before. To be brutally honest, I don't believe them.

I'm curious why you don't believe them. I see no particular reason to think that lighting does or doesn't deter crime. And in fact studies are inconclusive -- it depends both on the type of crime and on where the study is done. People's behavior at night varies wildly from one culture to another.

I do have little doubt that for many people -- at least in the U.S. -- lighting does decrease the fear of crime. And since the fear of crime is a much bigger problem than actual crime (which is much rarer than most people like to admit), that's a reasonable argument for lighting at night.

More important, there's overwhelming evidence that lighting decreases pedestrian accidents at night. Which is why I am definitely in favor of appropriate outdoor lighting inside cities. The key word being "appropriate," of course.

Jaimeylos Chiessa

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Re: Second study I've seen. Reduced lighting does NOT increase crime
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2018, 04:28:10 AM »
Quote
Quote

I've seen these kinds of studies before. To be brutally honest, I don't believe them.

............

I do have little doubt that for many people -- at least in the U.S. -- lighting does decrease the fear of crime. And since the fear of crime is a much bigger problem than actual crime (which is much rarer than most people like to admit), that's a reasonable argument for lighting at night.

........


As I’ve mentioned before in this Forum, in the case of State College PA, the Mayor acknowledged that reducing the bright lights on one street would not increase crime “….but it makes people feel safe….” which he felt was justification enough to keep the bright lights.

On the other hand, when a group in my area (NY’s Southern Tier) suggested increased lighting in a down town area to decrease gang and drug crime, even the police chief said “If we increase the lighting it will just make it easier for the drug dealers to count their change!” The brighter lights were not installed.

jingdilenma

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Re: Second study I've seen. Reduced lighting does NOT increase crime
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2018, 01:14:42 AM »
Quote
Quote

I've seen these kinds of studies before. To be brutally honest, I don't believe them.

I'm curious why you don't believe them. I see no particular reason to think that lighting does or doesn't deter crime. And in fact studies are inconclusive -- it depends both on the type of crime and on where the study is done. People's behavior at night varies wildly from one culture to another.

I do have little doubt that for many people -- at least in the U.S. -- lighting does decrease the fear of crime. And since the fear of crime is a much bigger problem than actual crime (which is much rarer than most people like to admit), that's a reasonable argument for lighting at night.

More important, there's overwhelming evidence that lighting decreases pedestrian accidents at night. Which is why I am definitely in favor of appropriate outdoor lighting inside cities. The key word being "appropriate," of course.

The fear of crime is one of the most important ways the public is manipulated. So, indeed, the issue may be much more about the fear of it than the reality.

My problem with these studies is that I don't believe they tend to be valid. I understand that there are all sort of methodologies applied. I simply don't feel that I can believe them as the human world is a complex place and these sorts of studies try to weed out one little aspect of it. Do the study another way, and get another result. From the news story, this particular study hardly sounds like they had any valid methodology, anyhow. I didn't bother to try and find the study and read it, though.

I also happen to like a beautiful, bright city as much as I like a rural night. So, I'm biased.

Glen

caheadhilldea

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Re: Second study I've seen. Reduced lighting does NOT increase crime
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2018, 03:30:52 AM »
There's another article on the subject athttp://www.onearth.o...-more-dangerous

Dave Mitsky

Damon Brigham

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Re: Second study I've seen. Reduced lighting does NOT increase crime
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2018, 12:20:40 AM »
Honest people are afraid of the dark. Guess what? SO are dishonest people (and I suspect they might even be MORESO).

Another consideration. When there is sufficient light, bad guys don't need flashlights. When it's dark they do (that or GLPs).

What is easier to see? Some guy creeping in the neighbor's bushes under the glare of a streetlight or some other dark neighborhood where he needs a flashlight manuever around?

While it could go either way, I'm not surprised that either in theory or practice lack of light makes being a criminal harder (and therefore less likely).

And, as a personal matter, I would much rather RELEASE THE HOUNDS! in the dark than in the not so dark. But thats just my nasty side coming out.

Louis Sullivan

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Re: Second study I've seen. Reduced lighting does NOT increase crime
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2018, 01:54:35 AM »
Here's another good site on the subject: http://physics.fau.e...l-security.html