Author Topic: Sometimes It's Hopeless  (Read 386 times)

Michael Thompson

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Sometimes It's Hopeless
« on: December 27, 2017, 03:20:05 PM »
The company I work for is expanding the staging/loading area it uses and doubling the size. To accomplish this they have to reconfigure the entire area for proper and legal drainage.

As the business has grown so has the light pollution. It's reached a point of being a bad neighbor and the areas biggest sourse of stray light. This is due to the lighting in the yard being installed by the overwhelmed maintenance crew who buy the biggest, baddest light they can find, stick it on a pole and aim it straight out. The effect is blinding or course. We have 15-20 of these and will soon double the total.

As a 30 year employee I am able to speak to those in charge and those who can make a difference if they choose to.

I told the manager about the issue and how by using proper planning they can have both effective and safer lighting for minimal cost.

I spoke with the safety director about how our present lighting is both dangerous and inefficient and directed him to the International DarkSky Association website for information.

Well, the homes that were in the way of the expansion have been razed and the drainage system is going in.

The lighting system has not been and will not be modified.

Honestly, people just don't care about this issue even when presented with good information. Those I spoke with are people I trust to do the right thing.

I tried.



Randy Ott

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Re: Sometimes It's Hopeless
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2017, 12:53:04 AM »
Thanks for trying; it sounds like you did all you could do.

Tsar Daniels

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Re: Sometimes It's Hopeless
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2017, 04:38:33 AM »
I think I understand what they think.{they don't really care, LOL} The bottom line to them is money.Image Intensifiers are the answer. Yes they are somewhat expensive but the rewards are equal to it.1. 2.5 X times your aperture!2. Not as affected by light pollution!I've asked Celestron to make one that was more affordable.If we all were to ask Celestron to make an Intensifier they would listen. Tomorrow will come and we can prepare for it by taking action today. Come take a look at the "Video and electronics forum". If IIE aren't for you maybe a camera is your answer. There is a way out but you must "Seek and then "You will find". De Lorme

rotenoter

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Re: Sometimes It's Hopeless
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2017, 12:41:52 PM »
Your mistake was going to the management and talking about light pollution and telling them about the DarkSky website.Business do not care about that. They probably looked at you like some kind of nut and disregard you accordingly.You should have approach it as operating cost reduction\ money saved\complying with some energy saving\nuisance regulation. THEN at least it would have been considered and/or discussed.Never tell them your real goals. Politicians do this all the time to get what they want. We should do the same and learn from the best.

Eric Castillo

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Re: Sometimes It's Hopeless
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2017, 07:06:47 AM »
I agree. Most people cannot comprehend the light pollution issue, not even a tiny bit nor would they care if they did. I would have brought them cut sheets of light fixtures and energy usage information. Leave out all the astronomy stuff, it is totally irrelevant to the decision makers.

sennessningwilch

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Re: Sometimes It's Hopeless
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2017, 05:15:54 PM »
I agree completely with the last two posts above. I suspect it could have been possible to influence the outcome had the right steps been taken. Also, one must expect / be prepared to actually spend significant money in the actual acquisition of <em class="bbc">demonstration light fixtures etc,.

bermordliro

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Re: Sometimes It's Hopeless
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2017, 05:59:27 PM »
No, you are utterly wrong in those assumptions.I stressed safety and effectiveness. I mentioned LP once in each spiel. I simply failed in effectively presenting a compelling argument. .

belmadeasus

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Re: Sometimes It's Hopeless
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2017, 08:42:25 PM »
No, It's about the money. Their not into astronomy so it doesn't effect their thinking.The electric companies don't want to reduce there power consumption because of the UNIONS.The mayors don't want to propose a light reduction{power}because of the threat by the other party that their daughteror wife will get mugged while walking to the car or wherever. When people go inside the last thing they thinkabout is the sky unless the weather is posing some threat.You should see the neighbors around me with their securityflood lights. No amount of reasoning is going to counterthe fear effect. So for me I've found an alternative that not only cures light pollution but aperture fever; Image Intensifiers. De Lorme

ivirlocri

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Re: Sometimes It's Hopeless
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2018, 12:25:37 AM »
Post deleted by gene 4181

trodnenwisen

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Re: Sometimes It's Hopeless
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2018, 03:45:32 AM »
Judging from the replies I can say that my communication skills are very obviously lacking in clarity.

Jeff Swan

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Re: Sometimes It's Hopeless
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2018, 02:45:45 PM »
i understood everything you said, i appreciate you trying to go to management on the issue. i deal with safety departments in construction everyday. safety and efficient procedures cost money, sometimes short cuts are taken .  and after you explain how the lighting is unsafe because it blinds you trying to work around it, when you do get hurt, then they fight you on a state comp. claim. it seems as safety is important as long as it doesn't cost more. maybe the same could be said for all the lighting around homes, etc.

sihealhdoggse

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Re: Sometimes It's Hopeless
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2018, 11:43:35 AM »
I can see the point the Herrointment is trying to make.Yes, LP is the problem but insted, approach them armed with more than words.Find out what kind of fixtures they are installing and how much it costs for those overall then compare it to some FCO LED fixtures. In other words, talk to there wallets.At least it may be worth a try.

Ray Gibas

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Re: Sometimes It's Hopeless
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2018, 12:22:46 PM »
I'm sorry Gene 4181 about the Union generalization statement. It wasn't my intention to upset anyone but justto give a basic understanding about the situation. So I apologize, please forgive. Ever think about the Federal reserve? Now there's a real problem. I hate politics so back to fun.  Right now I have a 8979HP intensifier and while it is bigthe views of M13 are the best I've ever seen in my light polluted sky. I put in my ES 24mm 68 degrees just to get acomparison and I could see it was there but not very well.The intensifier was so much better. I'm now searching for aGen 2 or 3 tube. To me it's going to make my CR6" 2.5x better for about the price of a 4" triplet Apo. The Apo or any eyepiece will not do anything for light pollution.I've contacted Celestron about making an Image Intensifierhoping that some competition will bring the price down.De Lorme

Steve Lewis

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Re: Sometimes It's Hopeless
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2018, 08:52:21 AM »
no problemo. we face alot of problems , imagine the money saved and energy resources if we could shut off the un-necessary light. but they just tack them on to consumer goods prices and in taxes to constituents.

Kyle Wood

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Re: Sometimes It's Hopeless
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2018, 01:49:40 AM »
Gene 4181 "Tacking them on to consumer good prices and in taxes to constituents" is exactly right!Because we don't carry enough votes there not going to listen to us. I was desperate for a while praying and looking for a solution. The image 8079HP intensifier has been the solution I was looking for. Looking forward to getting a Gen 2 or just maybe a Gen. 3  De LormeBTW Thanks for the Kindness.