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Astrophotography forum => Mounts Questions & Expirience => Topic started by: Alex Miller on December 28, 2017, 11:19:43 AM

Title: Polemaster final alignment help
Post by: Alex Miller on December 28, 2017, 11:19:43 AM
I'm using a new Polemaster for the first time. First steps are super easy. But when I get to the final alignment the red circle (pole) and the green box (axis) seem to move together (excepting for the fact that if I move the alt or az, the two white boxes (stars) and the green box start bouncing all over). Nothing like this seems to happen in any of the many youtube videos on the subject.
Sorry about the poor quality. Its dark and 2/-17 degrees. But wherever I move the red and green get no closer!!!
Title: Re: Polemaster final alignment help
Post by: bayretide on December 29, 2017, 12:24:00 AM
Aside from a potential software bug I can't see a reason for this to happen due to software malfunction.

Things to check-

Polemaster alignment should be done with your mount completely powered down.  With PoleMaster you are doing a physical alignment only so should not have your mount powered up and tracking in anyway.

The screenshot seems to imply that your rough alignment was a fair way out ....as the red and green boxes are usually much closer at the end of rough alignment based on my experience.

Double Check your initial rough alignment steps. Does the selected star stay properly on the green circle as you rotate your mount?? If not your rough alignment is out.

Final precise alignment only takes very fine movements in alt & az so making big adjustments might overshoot.

Hope this helps
Title: Re: Polemaster final alignment help
Post by: Keith Pennington on December 29, 2017, 12:49:31 AM
Poor seeing conditions, it's normal and not a software issue.
Title: Re: Polemaster final alignment help
Post by: longtichaten on December 29, 2017, 04:35:40 AM
Mount off. Manual rotation of polemaster shows star tracks green circle nicely.

Rough alignment goes smoothly - and looks far more accurate than screenshot above. Then things get wacky as soon as I go to the next mode.

I'm quite certain its NOT poor seeing. I did this two nights in a row. First time I've ever used it. I could see some flickering of the stars on the screen last night, but they look very steady tonight. The two white boxes lock onto the stars nicely unless I move them too far then they just bounce all over.

Is there anywhere I can download prior versions to see if this is some sort of bug?
Title: Re: Polemaster final alignment help
Post by: Jason Kaltwasser on December 30, 2017, 04:28:23 PM
Quote
Mount off. Manual rotation of polemaster shows star tracks green circle nicely.

Rough alignment goes smoothly - and looks far more accurate than screenshot above. Then things get wacky as soon as I go to the next mode.

I'm quite certain its NOT poor seeing. I did this two nights in a row. First time I've ever used it. I could see some flickering of the stars on the screen last night, but they look very steady tonight. The two white boxes lock onto the stars nicely unless I move them too far then they just bounce all over.

Is there anywhere I can download prior versions to see if this is some sort of bug?

Very strange.....Looks like the Mac version you have???

I have just used the latest version on a MacBook Air 2013 Model and it worked perfectly with my setup.

There is always the chance you have some sort of bug or issue with your specific laptop setup.

Could also be bad seeing but even with bad seeing you would expect to see both boxes moving together as you slowly adjust alt & az but you are saying that they are not moving together at all and bouncing all over??? which if seeing was that extreme to do that there wouldn't be much point to attempting it anyway until you have good seeing.

Also there is a box to tick on or off to compensate for atmospheric refraction.

The only other thing I can think of is if the star you have chosen is incorrect.....which would cause this problem

http://www.qhyccd.com/PoleMaster.html (http://www.qhyccd.com/PoleMaster.html)
Title: Re: Polemaster final alignment help
Post by: explacgarco on January 10, 2018, 04:28:05 PM
It's worth downloading the latest software as well which no longer uses the green and red squares but a cross you need to centre in a box.
Title: Re: Polemaster final alignment help
Post by: ithoclirans on January 10, 2018, 06:59:13 PM
Quote
It's worth downloading the latest software as well which no longer uses the green and red squares but a cross you need to centre in a box.

Yes, use the latest beta version. It's quite stable.
Title: Re: Polemaster final alignment help
Post by: Ivan Deane on January 10, 2018, 11:57:58 PM
Quote
I'm quite certain its NOT poor seeing. I did this two nights in a row. First time I've ever used it. I could see some flickering of the stars on the screen last night, but they look very steady tonight. The two white boxes lock onto the stars nicely unless I move them too far then they just bounce all over.

Nope, it's bad seeing. My stars are nice and stable until this step also, many times. In these situations you can only align the boxes or whatever as best you can. Then, blow and go!

Title: Re: Polemaster final alignment help
Post by: John Daniels on January 11, 2018, 07:46:20 AM
Quote

Polemaster alignment should be done with your mount completely powered down.  With PoleMaster you are doing a physical alignment only so should not have your mount powered up and tracking in anyway.
Are you sure of that?, the manual says that you have to do it via HC.

http://www.qhyccd.co...oleMaster1.html (http://www.qhyccd.com/ManualPoleMaster1.html) --> Calculate the rotate center

(Of course one of the things I've learned here, is not trusting too much in the manuals)
Title: Re: Polemaster final alignment help
Post by: heelmiliso on January 11, 2018, 05:56:11 PM
Quote

Polemaster alignment should be done with your mount completely powered down.  With PoleMaster you are doing a physical alignment only so should not have your mount powered up and tracking in anyway.Actually the manual states that the mount should be tracking.....I always forget to turn tracking on and never have had an issue either way.

Title: Re: Polemaster final alignment help
Post by: Michael Robinson on January 13, 2018, 03:45:48 AM
Yes the manual says to have the mount on and use the HC............Primarily indicating that if you have any slop or loose RA that this will make it better by reducing any RA float.

I found that it works better with the mount off and manually rotating the mount as my Tak EM400 mount has a very precise manual movement with no slop at all.

So guess this really depend on your mount, as either way will work if its good enough.

Remembering that pole master does not connect or take any readings from your mount electronics or encoders or do any plate solving.......its just relaying on a purely mechanical alignment and calculation of centre of rotation.

Which also means if your mount has some physical/mechanical misalignment of the RA with the mount housing where PoleMaster attaches then it will make things more difficult...
Title: Re: Polemaster final alignment help
Post by: Matt Victorin on January 14, 2018, 01:36:06 AM
FYI, this was the 1.3.2.8 version which is presently the latest stable release. The latest beta is 1.3.2.7.

This is a Win10 machine. Its a Dell XPS 15 with a 4k screen which does result in some Windows oddness.

Next time its not cloudy I'll post a proper screen capture.

I can't really argue that its bad seeing, but I don't understand that at all. If the atmosphere is displacing the stars, what the camera sees should show an the screen. The program is using the same data that is being displayed.
Title: Re: Polemaster final alignment help
Post by: memeforvi on January 16, 2018, 05:03:01 AM
Quote
FYI, this was the 1.3.2.8 version which is presently the latest stable release. The latest beta is 1.3.2.7.

This is a Win10 machine. Its a Dell XPS 15 with a 4k screen which does result in some Windows oddness.

Next time its not cloudy I'll post a proper screen capture.

I can't really argue that its bad seeing, but I don't understand that at all. If the atmosphere is displacing the stars, what the camera sees should show an the screen. The program is using the same data that is being displayed.

Have tried going to Add and Remove Programs and remove the Polemaster software then reinstall it. Also make sure you have the correct System Driver latest Version which is right above the 1.3.2.8 Stable Version software on the QYHCCD page (Windows) HERE (http://www.qhyccd.com/PoleMaster.html)
Cheers
Don
Title: Re: Polemaster final alignment help
Post by: sennessningwilch on January 18, 2018, 10:03:57 AM
Well I tried again with screen capture program ready and it worked perfectly. Maybe it was seeing conditions.
Title: Re: Polemaster final alignment help
Post by: propdiagairil on January 20, 2018, 03:17:44 PM
There is something I don't understand.
le manual says:
7.When using the PoleMaster, Should I stopt the mount RA tracing or not?
No. It is best to keep tracing during using the PoleMaster.

‚ÄčThefacelessmen says that the mount should be powered down.

What is the best way to use polemaster?
Thank you
Vince
Title: Re: Polemaster final alignment help
Post by: bermordliro on January 23, 2018, 06:00:30 AM
I have version 1.3.2 running on a MacBook Air with OSX 10.12.

FWIW, when I have experienced the same issue as the OP, I have assumed it to be seeing related or poor S/N ratio in my red zone location. Usually, starting over resulted in a better result.

My view of the polar region, however, is through a few tree branches, and one time recently windy conditions created the same problem. Under normal conditions with clear sky, I have found PoleMaster to work beautifully.

John
Title: Re: Polemaster final alignment help
Post by: tinlengmmuner on January 23, 2018, 06:46:52 PM
I have had this happen on my Mac. Usually it happens when I take too long between steps, so I try to do it as fast as possible. The software is not exactly bug free. If it does happen, I have to start over. Eventually it works like it is supposed to. I don't think it's seeing, because I can start over and it works just fine the second time. I think the program is just buggy. Most of the time, it works fine for me on the first time, as long as I go fast. I have done it with the mount on and tracking, and with the mount off. I personally don't see any difference, so I just leave the mount off and move it by hand.
Title: Re: Polemaster final alignment help
Post by: Rob Freeman on February 02, 2018, 07:25:38 PM
Quote
There is something I don't understand.
le manual says:
7.When using the PoleMaster, Should I stopt the mount RA tracing or not?
No. It is best to keep tracing during using the PoleMaster.

‚ÄčThefacelessmen says that the mount should be powered down.

What is the best way to use polemaster?
Thank you
Vince

My guess is that it is to keep field rotation out of the equation during the time you are aligning. Of course, I have no idea if that is true.

I've done it both ways and unscientifically felt that my results were better with it on, but I have no real data to support that.
Title: Re: Polemaster final alignment help
Post by: Zachary Patterson on February 09, 2018, 11:19:24 AM
This also happened to me - I bumped up the camera exposure a notch, and it seemed to fix it.  Not sure if that was really the cause though.
I hope the next version of the software is more like the method used in sharpcap 2.9.  So much easier:)